Blending Metallic Silver from a beginner!
- This topic has 13 replies, 5 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 9 months ago by .
- Posts
Hi guys, i’m not sure a total notice is really welcome here – but i’ve really enjoyed watching some of the youtube videos by jimmo so i thought i’d take a look at the site.
Basically i’ve been trying to sort out some rusty arches on my MG – we’ve done it once before but the colour match was never fantastic, it appeared to be “in shadow” and a darker shade.
as the car is (sadly) worth very little i don’t mind giving things a go – i’ve done some basic painting before, trim panels and interior parts, also made a great job of my wheels recently. i’ve attached a couple of pictures to highlight the problem, but it’s actually turned out even worse than before. I have access to a gun but chose the convenience of a can on this occasion as i had some on the shelf.
The colour is Starlight Silver (MBB from the MG-R catalogue) and i know it’s a problematic colour to blend properly. A masking mistake has resulted in some awful dry edges in the clearcoat which obviously means i’ll be re-doing it all, but i wanted your input on the colour itself.
I’ve tried several brands when trying to match this colour, including touch up paint from the factory but it has never matched. When viewed head-on it looks close (but wrong), from above it looks far too light and from the sides it looks too dark. Assuming i use better materials (and the gun this time!), what pointers can you offer in order to get a proper blend / colour match?
be gentle – i’m very much a beginner!
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img703/6541/ixv4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img850/3161/llvl.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://imageshack.us/a/img841/5381/xyr2.jpg[/IMG]
The car itself:
[IMG]https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/531318_211417562305380_2082694787_n.jpg[/IMG]
I wouldn’t have thought that that colour would be too difficult. It’s a fairly simple silver – fine and coarse bright metallics, jet black, a little violet blue, a touch of green gold and some crystalline frost to give it a faintly milky flip.
That said, you are never going to get a decent match, or finish, using spray cans. That pretty little car deserves better. The other thing is that with all those nice soft curves you won’t get away with trying to do a spot repair – it really has to be the whole panel.
First you will need to get to a paint supplier who can match the colour for you. Some slight adjustment from the standard formula is often necessary to allow for variations from the factory. Once you’ve done your repair and primed it – just that area, not the whole panel – you’re ready to apply your base coat.
No don’t start on the car yet. Get a piece of scrap and practice. Blending can be done one of three ways: flick in, flick out or by reduction. First, though, you need to master enough gun control to be able to gradually reduce pressure on the trigger while still moving the gun so that the paint coverage gradually reduces. Now practice going the other way starting with no trigger and gradually increasing so that you go from nothing to full pressure over a span of about 8″. Once you have that right, always keeping your gun perpendicular to the surface and a constant 8″ distance then mark out an area on your practice panel that simulates your primed repair. Put a light full coat over your primer and then extend beyond, fading as you go, by about 8″. Then a second coat, this time fading about 8″ beyond your first coat. Then reduce the paint in the cup by about 50% and put on a third coat, this time extending 8″ beyond the last coat, always fading as you go. If you have it right there should be a gradual coverage, starting from nothing and slowly increasing to your repaired area where there should be full coverage. You should not be able to see any point where you started or finished each coat.
Now go to your repaired panel and plan your attack. Sometimes there won’t be enough space for three 8″ blend coats so you’ll need to work out how to achieve a gradual reduction over about 2/3 of the distance from your repair to the panel edge. The last 1/3 should have no paint on it all so that there is no change of colour from the adjoining panel. Once you’ve planned it out use little pieces of masking tape on your masked off panels to remind you of where you want each coat to end. Now go ahead and paint your repair, gradually blending out over 3 coats allowing the proper flash times between each application. Once fully flashed apply two coats of clear to the whole panel. Remember that spraying in towards your repair is better than working out, even though it is a bit trickier to master.
Ideally you’d want to do your clear coat in a two pack product but I’m sure that I’ve read somewhere that supply of these paints is restricted to professional use only in the UK. This may put paid to your idea of doing it yourself since these products can be particularly nasty without proper breathing apparatus and venting of the spray area. You may be able to use acrylic clear – you’ll have to check that out for yourself.
Good luck.
Wow, thats a really detailed response and exactly the sort of information i was looking for – thanks for taking the time to respond!
Quite a lot of information to take in, luckily i do actually have a few scrap panels i can practice on. I would really like to tackle more paintwork myself so i’m going to take my time and learn how to do it properly.
I’ve got access to a gun and all the relevant tools so this should be doable. You’re quite right about the restricted sale of 2k clearcoat (well, the hardener) in the UK – although this was a few years ago now. In reality the paintshops realised that they were missing out by not selling these products to end-users. This means that a blind eye gets turned and paint shops will happily supply these goods to anyone. I actually bought some hardener a few months ago without any problem (i painted my wheels – turned out great btw!)
Something else i’ve been wondering, it’s always said that you should blend into adjacent panels and not spray a panel in isolation. I’ve actually had a rear bumper painted by a local painter when it was off the car, once fitted the paint was actually a perfect match. Blind luck or is there more to it? The paint match is superb, although in terms of a quality job – it wasn’t great. The basecoat wasn’t put on thick enough lower down the panel and you can see some primer, the paint has also started to split along one of the edges..
Thanks!
CharlesYou’re welcome.
Sure, you can paint individual panels, but only if there is enough room to do your blend so there is no colour change to the next panel. Otherwise, you’d better be a master colour matcher. Sound like the fellow that did your bar was that, but not the world’s greatest painter. :headsmack:
Let us know how you go.
Hi Guys, i finally got chance to have another look at this – a full day of sun (In October this is a rare thing for the UK!).
I’ve done a rust repair on the other side and it has had filler primer showing for a month now, time to get some paint over it. I’ve taken in all the advice above and also purchase some fade out thinners (HB Body 777) for blending my clearcoat.
The repair section was super smooth so i prepped the area around with grey scotchbite. All the adjacent panels were masked up and i planned on using ~12 inches for the repair (couldn’t easily go much further). The gun was adjusted to a fairly narrow spread with fairly low paint coverage for the basecoat, pressure was about 3bar. The colour went on ok initially, although as i had to apply more coats (to cover the orange filler primer – should have gone over it with grey..) i noticed the light halos appearing towards the edge of my painting. I tried to minimise this but there were some light halos, although they were small enough that i could live with them.
The clearcoat i extended past where the basecoat ended, although i messed up a bit and put the first coat on too heavy. This resulted in a run when i was annoyed by, but this will easily paper out. I did 3 coats in total and after each coat i used the fade out thinners on the outer edge so it blends with the existing clearcoat.
All appeared fairly well, i’d managed to blend the colour (halos aside) and it was a really good match. i removed the masking and headed off home (i paint at my parents, more space). When i got in i admired the work a bit, but noticed a rougher area towards the edge of the clear, i thought i’d perhaps not used enough of the thinners on this area and decided to melt it in to ensure a better blend. I applied a decent amount of spray thinners to the area, probably too much actually. To my horror the entire blend area starts to wrinkle up with a huge paint reaction, i was absolutely gutted – the job is obviously now a bust and i have to start all over again.
I’ve not taken any pics yet because i can’t bear to look at it, but i’d love to know what i did wrong? I’d already used the thinners on other areas with some success – it was working fine. I applied this final blast about an hour after the painting had finished, it was a little later and a little cooler perhaps. Why did it wrinkle up like this?!
I look forward to your comments guys, i’m keen to learn and correct it! 🙂
3 bar pressure s way too much in my opinion mate should be around 1.8 to 2 bar max.
Really? I was just going on the setup instructions from the gun, it’s an HVLP gravity fed type (economy branded).
Same thing happened to me with HBBody 777..
You need to apply 777 in a very light coat 3/4 over the old clear and 1/4 over the blend area..
And this is immediately after the last coat..If there are rougher areas on the end of the blend transition.. you might apply again.. but not after 1 hrs.. it is too much time.. the catalysts had started working and all solvents had almost evaporated. This means that the clear is curing by its self and this process can not be interrupted by adding more solvent i.e. adding 777 or any other per se.
When you are applying the clear there is a solvent content that binds with the under coat (color) in a chemical bonding. If the solvents evaporate before you can apply the blender.. you are kaput..
Your best bet was leaving the rougher area (orange peel) and then pass it with 3000 grit and polish..
This explanation was given to me by a HBBody rep.
As said, the blender should be applied straight away. Doing it after a partial cure is ineffective, and, as you’ve found out, can be disastrous.
HVLP stands for High Volume Low Pressure. 3 Bar is a long way away from what I’d call low pressure. Below 2 Bar, even 1.5 of inlet pressure is more what I’d expect. That’s of course of the gun truly is HVLP. Being a budget brand they may have just put that stamp on there to try and sell them.
The high pressure won’t have helped with the halo either I’d say. The basecoat will have been highly atomised, so going on almost dry at the edges of the blend. This will cause the metallic particles to sit at all kinds of funky angles instead of settling down nicely in a uniform manner. That will cause a difference in how that area reflects the light (instead of bouncing back off the face of the flake it will be scattered) giving you a darker or patchy area.
The “roughness” in the metallic flakes may also have been showing through in your clear as it won’t lay as smoothly over that.
That’s great information guys, interesting to hear that others have had issues with the 777 blender too.
I wondered if the rough outer edge of the metallic paint had led to the clear not covering completely and the blender coming into contact with paint particles not just clear, but it just sounds like i put it on WAY too late in the day and ruined the job!
I’m hoping to have the weather to have another bash at it this year, fingers cross i’ll get another sunny sat/sun soon.
The gun is a budget type and does recommend 3 bar, furthermore when i used it with the pressure adjuster turned down partially it didn’t atomise a clearcoat layer i sprayed and it went on with the most orange peel i’ve ever seen. It took hours of sanding to fix! I may well turn it down a bit for the colour coat though, i think Andy is probably spot-on about the high pressure causing a halo effect. The particles were literally going everywhere.
If i allowed longer to cure between coats and used a tack rag would this help reduce any of the settled overspray and halo effect?
Allow for longer flash times between coats, and tack rag to knock some metallics that are funky..
Cheers, i’ll do that. To be honest i didn’t allow for proper flash times as i was running low on daylight when finishing the job – the clear in particular got hammered on fairly quickly.
I know there are a couple of different tack rag types, some of which leave debris on the panel. Can somebody link me to an ebay special that’ll do the job please?
I’m itching to have another go at this now, although due to the area involved it’s not far a full panel job – although i’d like to master the spot repair to a decent standard first for my own sense of satisfaction as much as anything.
Cheers
CharlesAre you doing this outside..
Can you do this in a garage?Sunlight/daylight might not be a problem if you have a garage.. You need first to properly clean the garage and then do the work.. wet the floor etc.. I use Colad Tack Rags but be sure to blow off with the gun again before painting..
Regarding the gun.. I have owned china crap before.. and they do need higher pressure to atomize correctly.. they are hogs for materials and have low transfer efficiency..
Make sure that the first coat of base goes lightly..
Extend the second coat further bu 25%, extend the third coat if necessary another 50% and apply control coat for metallics.. If you manage to get it done with 2 coats then skip the 3rd coat and apply control coat over the area for the metallicsTo apply the control coat lower your gun pressure and back up bu 2-3 inches try not to flick your wrists on the edges.. and try to spray diagonals extending outwards..
Make sure that the first coat of clear goes medium.. leave it to flash over.. try with your finger on a masking area to see if it is tacky.. if it tacks up nicely.. then apply the second coat and extend the area if you want to blend the clear..
after finishing with the second coat that extends further more in the old clear by 30%.. take out the clear from your gun..
give it few short bursts to purge out the clear.. and put the blend in the gun.. then adjust the material delivery / needle for the blend in to account for the lower viscosity of the blend in.. and apply the blend in very lightly and in controlled manner…
I personally never liked to blend clear and always cleared the whole panel.. since it gives the best possible finish..
If you do this in a garage.. try to warm up the garage.. and try to use fast hardner if it is below 15C celsius..
Hi guys, i thought i’d update you all on this since i’ve had a chance to redo the job properly!
I’ve sanded the offending area (sorted the rust again too) and primed. The rest of the panel i went over with scotchbrite. Using the advice above i’ve coloured most of the panel as high as the rear quarter glass (extending further each time to blend out the colour). Once i’d got the colour down i’ve clearcoated to where the metal is narrow behind the rear quarter window, on the blend i’ve used a bit of fade of thinners.
All in all i’m really pleased with the job. I tried not to paint right up to the edge of the panel at any point, but also to extend the colour each time and tack rag between coats. I also allowed proper flash times. The end result is a near perfect (in my eyes!) match and a great finish. The only trouble i had was trying to get the clear to lay down totally flat with the cheapo gun (a parkside china-based item). It creates lots of mist but poor transfer as per the post above. There is a bit of orange peel lower down bit it will easily paper out.
Easily the best thing i’ve painted so far, will have to snap a picture when i get the chance. Really appreciate the advice on here though – i wouldn’t have got a result without it, genuinely learned a lot. I’m doing the other side next weekend so i hope this goes as well or better! 🙂
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.