BMW Rivets
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Replacing right quarter on a 2011 BMW 328i Convertible. OE procedure says to use rivets to lower the number of welds. Got the rivets they are called punch rivets (N4 & N5). BMW sells a nice hydraulic rivet squeezer for big$$. Any referrals of alternate tools for squeezing in these rivets?
Air hammer and a dolley might work (you may want a second person to help you, though).
I don’t imagine they mentioned using panel bonding adhesive instead?
Calls for rivets and Panel Bond Adhesive together along the top and bottom flange areas
Obviously I’m no engineer…but is that tiny rivet going to do much that the panel bond isn’t?
I find it strange how they’re telling us to glue and rivet these structural panels on to decrease welds.. yet still have to weld the joint up the roof pillars anyway?! What was wrong with a spot weld in the first place?!
[quote=”JackMarshall” post=27821]I find it strange how they’re telling us to glue and rivet these structural panels on to decrease welds.. yet still have to weld the joint up the roof pillars anyway?! What was wrong with a spot weld in the first place?![/quote]
Cheaper faster easier
[quote=”nick1″ post=27797]Replacing right quarter on a 2011 BMW 328i Convertible. OE procedure says to use rivets to lower the number of welds. Got the rivets they are called punch rivets (N4 & N5). BMW sells a nice hydraulic rivet squeezer for big$$. Any referrals of alternate tools for squeezing in these rivets?
[/quote]I would use Chery Max rivets instead.
[quote=”Doright” post=29497][/quote]
I would use Chery Max rivets instead.[/quote]
Are they approved by BMW for use?
[quote=”JackMarshall” post=27821]I find it strange how they’re telling us to glue and rivet these structural panels on to decrease welds.. yet still have to weld the joint up the roof pillars anyway?! What was wrong with a spot weld in the first place?![/quote]
Its all in the name of corrosion prevention from the welding process
[quote]yet still have to weld the joint up the roof pillars anyway?[/quote]
Nope in using the latest methods they dont weld the pillars.
very nice clean repair on the link below “no welding”
Going to see a lot more of these rivet repairs over the next few years.
Ding asked “Are they approved by BMW for use?”
Probably not. But every aircraft manufacture in the world approves them for use on there aircraft.
That may not mean much to you but a lot of stuff in the auto and truck industry traces back to the Aerospace industry first, not the other way around. I’m gonna say they chose these type of rivets for speed on assembly line as they don’t require any hole preparation.
Just place rivet in gun and shoot no hole drilling.By the looks of that rivet its a self piercing rivet and you will need a very special squeezer and extra specific size tooling to install it correctly. Your Not going to be able to just pound that with a regular rivet set and bucking bar.
http://www.valleyfastener.com/self-piercing-rivets.html
The squeezer for this type of system is probably in excess of 3 grand I would think? I could be wrong but I doubt it?I see no problem using Cherry max or Huck’s or other similar hi quality blind locking fasteners with locking device.
The rivets I’m talking about are Very hi quality designed for use on aircraft. Been around for a very long time very strong.
A good puller for Chery max is not cheap but can be purchased new or used. Andi bet its a whole lot cheaper than a self piercing system.If panels are steel your gonna need a steel fastener noted by an “S” in part number system or Stainless steel noted by a “C” to prevent dissimilar metal corrosion, aluminum and steel don’t play well together in long run. Cherry Max makes rivets in all kinds of different materials.
aluminum, Monel, Stainless steel, steel, etc. also Bulb head or Flush head.
Some are for structures some for shear strength clamping etc…. There is a lot to know about rivets, I know more about them than I care too.http://www.cherryaerospace.com/product/blindrivets.html
OK all said and done, Just weld or Glue the panel on and forget it. :deadhorse
All said and done, the repair should be performed the way and with the tools, equip, etc that the factory requires. Sure those other way will likey work and hold up just fine. But it wont fly in a court of law when you are being sued because the car was involved in another accident and someone got injured and their lawyer found out the repairs were not performed based on factory procedures. Also explain to a customer that is trying to trade their car in and a savy dealer see’s the car was repaired with the wrong rivots,etc and they either refuse to take the car in trade or offer a low value on it.
I agree with you HOWEVER I would be willing to bet money that the correct selection of Rivets from Cherry Max would MEET or EXCEED factory replacement requirements, They are that good. That’s what they are for and That’s what they do meet OR exceed factory requirements.
Personally after looking over what the factory self piercing rivet looks like after being installed correctly it looks like it stretches the metal A LOT, I would rather have a Cherry in it myself Or a solid rivet’s if I were doing the repair. Rivets are Judged mainly by Shear strength I’m sure the metal would fail and tear before either a self piercing rivet or the Correct Cherry would fail. Im sure BOTH mfg could be contacted for engineering support on this topic, I am sure Cherry Max would welcome the challenge if the correct people were contacted.
How expensive is this special self piercing Rivet squeezer any way????? If its less than a grand guys need to quit crying about it and belly up and buy one. A new Cherry max gun is gonna be around a Grand any way, I just missed out on a used and abused cherry max puller on ebay for $225 and most are selling used in $500-$600 range, These are no joke rivets I’m talking about, they require their own special puller themselves although I have used regular hand squeezer for small ones.
There is no HOWEVER!!! They may meet or exceed factory requirements, but I dont know that. and unless they are approved by the factory for use in the repair, you are taking a HUGE liability playing backyard engineer. Thats best left for the 101 crowd :pcorn:
normally when pros repair a vehicle they do it by what OEM recommends and they try not to reinvent the vehicle or its components. its basically a liability issue as ding noted. if its your own car, feel free to do whatever you want to it; but when its someone else’s car, its also an ethical issue.
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