Complete refinish thickness?
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Anyone help me with this figure. Im having an issue with a paint job that didnt stick. Im not really sure what happened but the manufacturer blames the overall thickness as the reason for lack of adhesion.
You might have to give a bit more info than that.
Well I figured as much but the rep shot me a overall thickness figure so I wanted some other opinions on the figure. So I would like to start there. He said 10 mils was average.
10 mils for what? Did you strip it and start from the bottom up? did you just repaint over OEM paint? Where is it peeling at? Is the clear not sticking, is everything you put on delaming?
Yes it was a total strip and repaint. His quote was for all primers and topcoats.
What paint/products are you using?
Going too thin or way too thick can cause issues, but a few mils difference overall shouldn’t matter.
Your etch should me almost nothing, your sanded primer or sealer should probably be about2-4 mils, the base coat might be about 1 mil and the clear about 2-2.5 mils. I would think a minimum of 6 mils overall should be sufficient…
so how thick was your paint?. also did you clean and degrease the panels before stripping. lot of variables to why paint delams. most of the time it is user error. occasionally you will get a bad batch of something.
10 mils is flirting with danger. Not lack of adhesion danger but cracking danger (especially is you live in the sunbelt).
From your description, it sounds like a system failure, meaning YOU made a mistake. Common issues are poor application and removal of degreaser, mixing product lines, short flash times, or poor drying between layers.
First let me say that Im not looking to blame the materials. I put a lot of work and cash in that project. I HAVE to find out EXACTLY WTF happened cause I cant afford to do it a third time. Not to mention I have USED this stuff before. I have painted a lot of shit in my life and NOTHING like this has ever happened before. That said, on to the details.
I hope you all can help cause I gotta get this thing painted.
Since the paint is bubbling everywhere I get out an exacto knife and start taking the paint off. These measurements are real and accurate and measured after the paint was removed from the car.
Total thickness is 15 mils and down to 12mils (the rear of the car was very flat to start so it didn’t need a lot of work). 5.5 to 6.5 is the base coat and clear (measured at 15 points around the car). Yea The clear was new to me and I thought it was like pouring honey. But Im glad to know Im consistent. 🙂 (I haven’t tried to separate the clear and the color). The first thing on the car was two part epoxy. Sat for one year. Then another coat of epoxy per instructions. Then I used a high build primer for some flat boarding and minor body work. Spread over about a week. Then color and clear the same day. Less than a month the first bubble appeared. Since then no panel has been immune to the lifting and it lifted off the base. I have used the epoxy, color and clear before. They worked fine for me in the past.
Because the two part and the hi build were the same color I cant differentiate the thickness of the two.
SO… was the hi build primer to blame. It could have been several coats and lots of sanding between but I doubt any one coat was stupid thick. But lets just say the hi build stuff was to thick and it shrunk. Could/would it make the epoxy come off too?
I have another car in the driveway painted with the same epoxy (not same can just same type) painted by the same equipment and the same douche nozzle behind the gun. Only diff is its a metal car and epoxy straight to color. The one in question is fiberglass and the hi build in between. I have a third car. Painted with the same materials including the hi build. But not nearly as much flat board work so it only had one coat of hi build (not same batch) that IS fiberglass (but probably a diff kinda fiberglass because its a modern body kit) and its doing fine too.
I wondered about contaminates but how did the first coat of epoxy stay on the car a year?
Im all ears cause Im gonna drop a match if this happens again. LOl
At what layer does the bubble start?
Your problem is likely in between those layers.
How are you measuring the paint thickness on a fiberglass car?
Also, can you give us more detail as the the exact products you were using? What epoxy, what primer?
How did you strip the car? If you used paint stripper, you are done man. The chemicals from the stripper leach into the glass and will cause blistering. Also, what was wrong with the paint finish you removed? Had to throw away the SMC body panel years ago due to battery acid damage, did all the steps to neutralize the acid, sanded it down to the plastic, built it back up. It came back twice with blisters, put a new panel on and had no more trouble.
:kofee
[quote=”Red Baron” post=26494]At what layer does the bubble start?
Your problem is likely in between those layers.
How are you measuring the paint thickness on a fiberglass car?[/quote]
Everything I put on the came off. So the epoxy didnt stick…. AFTER I put more stuff on top. Dont forget the first coat of epoxy was on the car 1 year before work resumed.
I cut/scraped it off the car with an exacto knife, and used Mitutoyo digital calipers. I mean its not like it doesnt have to come off at some point right. 🙂
[quote=”Ben” post=26495]Also, can you give us more detail as the the exact products you were using? What epoxy, what primer?[/quote]
I hate to mention Brands cause I dont wanna start an opinion war or seem like I hate this or that. I just wanna know what happened. >:(
But I guess its pertinent info.
Evercoat Panel Adhesive (very minor joint cracks)
DPLF
Evercoat Rage (very very minor fill in a few spots)
K38 (lots of flat board time here)
DBC
DC4000In that order
[quote=”Mr. Morton” post=26498]How did you strip the car? If you used paint stripper, you are done man. The chemicals from the stripper leach into the glass and will cause blistering. Also, what was wrong with the paint finish you removed? Had to throw away the SMC body panel years ago due to battery acid damage, did all the steps to neutralize the acid, sanded it down to the plastic, built it back up. It came back twice with blisters, put a new panel on and had no more trouble.
:kofee[/quote]
I would never in my darkest day use a chemical stripper on any paint project here. Why paint it in the first place? A:The car was the wrong color. B: Didnt know what was on the car. C: It was, ironically too thick. and D: the car came factory with a lacquer paint job. In this day and age I had no idea what a paint subject to reflow might do to me.
I have stock in 3m and arms like Arnold so why not strip the car bare. 🙂
so how did you clean and prep the car before you stripped it and before you applied the epoxy. thats where your failure was, the epoxy to the substrate.
So the bond came off too?
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