die back
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there is nowt wrong with cheaper clears,compared to spies, dupont, nexa, my clear is very cheap but it holds out does not drop and gives a good build.
And it cures lol you cant mark it with your thumb the following day like you can with some H.S. clears, and it is 420 compliant.
From the gallery just painted obviously not been buffed, and my clears do hold out before anyone says lets see it in a years time. I live in a very small community so usually get to keep an eye on the vehicles i have repaired.
The clear i use is Lesonal Akzo’s cheaper brand
[IMG]http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/dunsdale/l200/osclear.jpg[/IMG]
Lesonal is far from what we consider a cheap product over here. I have used quite a bit of Lesonal Nick and find it to be a very good product. Great value imo. We have some real cheap and shitty clears sold in the states.
BTW that that Mitsubishi looks good!;)
I’ve experienced the same thing with 5600, as a production clear I wouldn’t expect the same results as a regular clear. They’ve got a newer production clear DC5120 that seems to be a bit better. On the subject of cheap clears, one of the best jobs I did was my brothers truck with a local off the truck product called “champion”. It didn’t require buffing and its held up great over the years. I’ve got great results with the cheap stuff too, I think your mostly paying for warranty with the high end stuff. If you get a bad hardener and f’k up 10 jobs because of it BASF would pay the bill where champion would tell you to eat s***..lol.. It actually happend to my old man at another shop he ran 10 years ago, BASF paid him about $10,000 to redo the jobs.
[quote=”ryanbrown999″ post=15159]Lesonal is far from what we consider a cheap product over here. I have used quite a bit of Lesonal Nick and find it to be a very good product. Great value imo. We have some real cheap and shitty clears sold in the states.
BTW that that Mitsubishi looks good!;)[/quote]
Exactly. Lesonal is a mid-range product, much better than Omni, Nason, Limco etc. I used to use Lesonal several years ago and found it to be one of the easiest systems to use. Considering how well the colour matches are and how well it works,I think it is one of the best products available for the price. I love the Pro-Air clear when spraying in a non-baking booth.
[quote=”admin” post=15160]I’ve experienced the same thing with 5600, as a production clear I wouldn’t expect the same results as a regular clear. They’ve got a newer production clear DC5120 that seems to be a bit better. On the subject of cheap clears, one of the best jobs I did was my brothers truck with a local off the truck product called “champion”. It didn’t require buffing and its held up great over the years. I’ve got great results with the cheap stuff too, I think your mostly paying for warranty with the high end stuff. If you get a bad hardener and f’k up 10 jobs because of it BASF would pay the bill where champion would tell you to eat s***..lol.. It actually happend to my old man at another shop he ran 10 years ago, BASF paid him about $10,000 to redo the jobs.[/quote]
very true. i think i know what champion clear your talking about and i think its just relabeled valspar products.
people, people, if you want an inexpensive clear, try USC Morton 40-1 glamour clear. its an AMTec clear but literally half the price. i think im somewhere into my second or third year of using it and i couldnt be happier. i service a few of the vehicles i used it on on a regular basis and they still look like theyre freshly painted. :wak
You could try giving more time in between coats if time will allow. We had no die back issues when we were using RM. We used mainly DC5300 though.. If you are looking for a cheaper clear that will work just as good or not better try Napa Acme FC720/FC710. I have painted many with it, using RM base and never had any issues. No die back, nothing.. Probably the best clear for the money. Others are using it on here as well.
Now i dont do production work but 10 minutes flash on the base before clear sounds absolutely obsurd. That has dieback written all over it. Do most of you guys only wait that long before clear? Diamont has some very slow tail solvents so while it flashes and dulls out quick it takes a long time for those solvents to come out.
[quote=”ryanbrown999″ post=15159]Lesonal is far from what we consider a cheap product over here. I have used quite a bit of Lesonal Nick and find it to be a very good product. Great value imo. We have some real cheap and shitty clears sold in the states.
BTW that that Mitsubishi looks good!;)[/quote]
Lesonal is very cheap here compared to the big boys like spies, dupont, and nexa
Jim how long do you let final base flash for, never had a problem flashing for ten mins, i always though the recomended 20 was a bit long.
For instance flash for 20 or more on a porous bumper and i have seen lifting problems with the clear as the base was to dry, particular on new ford bumpers.
this type
[IMG]http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp299/dunsdale/6970.jpg[/IMG]
Hate to get in the middle of a battle, but I am sorry Stone you are behind the times. If you knew you had to be compliant why would you wait until the last second?! We have been on water for over two years now, yes we had some issues at first, but now everything is working great! We have no date yet here in the great lakes to switch, but I figured we would be proactive. I would surely not wait until the last month to switch, you give yourself no time for a learning curve and have no backup.. And as far as cheap clears go, its a give and take unless you find the right one. I would much rather push 2 more cars through the shop because we saved time buffing for die back, that wait two days to buff cheap clear. Its not profitable no matter how you look at it. You always mention you are booking into the next month, have you ever thought about changing your process and materials to get more cars done in the same amount of time and still have good quality??! Yes it is possible. You can make more and work less if change the way you are doing things.. Either move forward or move over!
Im not looking for a cheap clear, like I said just looking for a clear(preferably in RM) that will work for me. obviously the 5600 is to fast for more than three panels. (unless your double coating). I know there are cheaper clears that are great products and we do use some of them on our lower end jobs. We dont have baking capabilities as of now but will in a year or so. So I think im gonna use dc92 That I know air dries well. Ditching the dbc500 and gonna use glasurit color blender.
Jim, I dont think 10min before clear, personally, I dont think its obsurd at all, I have never had a problem with die back with that time frame at all. (except on whites which I give about 15-20min. but we usually use uno on whites blacks and reds capped with a coat of clear for added protection).
Again, cost is not an issue. This isnt the first time ive used RM, But it is the first time in about 5yrs that ive used it. We recently switched from dbc to Diamont, and this was only my 3rd car with the product. Im sure I’ll figure it out shortly, not that dificult. Was just cerious if anyone had this issue, and what they reccomended for a remedy.Isnt the 5120 a faster clear more used for jamming parts?
[quote=”rodney79″ post=15170]Isnt the 5120 a faster clear more used for jamming parts?[/quote]
No, it’s just another production clear. It seems thin compared to 5600, I wouldn’t use it as a cut-in clear at that price personally. I use Limco LC4200 for cut-ins & used car stuff. Its (5120) a fast clear but it gives a minute before the kick-off, good for 1-2 panel jobs.
BTW, I’ve never experienced the exact problem your referring to, with die-back its been the whole job or none. I try and give 15 minutes before clearing with diamont, but for me i factor in what color (how many coats i needed to cover) and how much flash i gave in-between the coats. Typically its 5 mins between coats and 10 at the end, the Diamont tech sheet says 15 mins but i’m also usually spraying at a higher temperature then what they base that on.
Thanx for the input guys! Much appreciated. Just thought i’d broaden my input beyond my jobber. Talking to other painters is more helpful than just talking to one person who may not have experienced much of anything in a booth! :cheers
Give the 5300 a try and maybe give an extra couple mins of flash before clearing. Stay away from DC92 though unless you like sanding runs….
Ive heard that about the dc92, Kinda makes me nervous. But I would like to try it. I’ll probably try the 5300 as well. Id like to compare the two side by side.
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