Dupont Cromax wbc problems appealing to the wise!
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Hi there After couple searches for my problems i came to this site. My name is Calvin and Im having problems with the dupont cromax wbc line
the booth set up is a semi downdraft with air make up, air movement is good and heat is good
in the past ive been shooting RM/Glasurit and PPG/ICI envirobase and aquabase
Now first off after hearing the dupont system being a coat and half system all wet on wet application I couldnt wait to try it
For my problems
Solid colors red or white tend to “splash” leading to what i see as a fish eye in the clearcoat
The clearcoat both 8500 and 5100 clear tend to pop right after bake and after a few days even more solvent pops and the clearcoat starts to “tighten up” some say it marble or becomes hazy. I bake at 140F @ first i thought it was the clear but more and more Im begining to see its in the base. I baked the base and the problem is lessened but it is still thereDupont training school says im putting on too much clear. If too much clear, wouldnt it die back? i still have gloss just the clear just tightens.
Im also looking into the booth and airmake up . One hypothesis is that the airflow is not as great as a downdraft and the clear and base both skims the substrate because air movenment is from one side to another.
Also minor problem is the tricoat tends to marble or dies back . I think its because I activate the basecoat with the 2075 hardener
any help and any suggestions or if you ran into the problem please let me know how to stop it
PS i grab some envirobase base and clear and it turned out fine so either im not doing the cromax right or it doesnt suite the booth im in
thanks again everyone I REALLY appreciate any input
Cal
with terms like tighten an marble an ur using dupont im gonna let the site pro advise ya on this one 😉 ya got me a lil with the ditzler reference so im ta leave it up ta him the ol hoser ta line ya all out :dnc :dnc
As Bondo said, some of those are interesting terms…nevertheless, I have heard of some of the problems you are having, but I haven’t had many issues with cromax.
As far as the cratering goes, you may be applying the base too heavy and/or not drying it enough before clearing. 1.5 coats is ideal, but you will need to do more, possibly slightly lighter, coats for some colours.
I have only used one of the new clears once, so I can’t say a whole lot. I would suggest considering your reducer/hardener selection and flash times, possibly adjusting them. I would suggest allowing lots of time for the base to dry/flash, maybe use a slightly slower reducer and maybe allow a little more flash time between coats of clear. Two wet coats of clear (applied properly) shouldn’t cause die back. popping is usually caused by too fast of hardener or applying too much with inadequate flash time. I am not sure what type of coats DuPont recommends with their new clears (2 medium, 2 wet, 1 medium followed by a wet coat etc…) there are a lot of variables to play with…gun/setup, technique, temperature etc…
If the base is marbeling or looks funny a day later the base wasn’t fully dehydrated. How long are you waiting from base to clear? Do you use any handheld driers? Whats the humidity like where your at?
I have heard of splashing but never had it happen to me. Im not much help here.
Honestly for clear I almost always used Spies clears with Cromax. They work better and look better. They were actually cheaper also.
first off thank you so much for all your replies
I would think the base is fully dried as in I put the base coat through a 15-20 min bake cycle I have handheld driers and use it for smaller jobs Unfortunately Spies Hecker is not a big paint comapany in vancouver bc canada cannot try that.
Splashing I agree, there is too much material in that area which causes it to splash or crater. Its funny how it goes away when the base has flashed off and when you clear it, it comes right back looking like a fish eye My question is since its a 1.5 coat system is it possible to keep putting paint on the panel again and again? Or should i hit actually a first coat and let that flash and than go back with 1.5 coats, to avoid the splashing
The clearcoat is a one and a half coat production clear, one coat has to be thin and the other medium wet to wet. about 5-8 min flash between coats. I even let it flash for 15-20 min before bake It still has little solvent pop a day later etc
Common knowledge for base being flash off is tackable and no longer wet looking, How do I know if the cromax base has been fully dehydrated? Am i baking the base too hot thats its skimming????
humidity is about 80% – 88% on a regular day I am thinking about using the slower controller and letting the base dry and cool off longer even longer than now about 30 min im thinking.
On another note…does anyone know what WB 2095 is? a blender additive?
the splashing or cratering is a problem i can handle, its the solvent pops that is frustrating
Im more on the belief that my base is not dry and coming up through the clear.
thanks again for the help and feel free to correct me!
ben… what problems or issues have u had with cromax???
why dont ya join us in the chatbox on the main page 😉
i am so dumb i dont know how to get into chat lol, sorry really computer slow 😛 is it the voice chat???
no its the lil small box on the home page ur puter will handle it just fine if ya can type 😉
[quote=”autopainter84″ post=21308]ben… what problems or issues have u had with cromax???[/quote]
The only real issue I have had is colour match, and when I first started using it a little trouble with metallic control. I have seen the cratering once or twice. As far as drying the base, using the blowers is probably a lot more beneficial than trying to bake the base. If anything, I would maybe just turn the heat up (rather than bake) and blow the F*** out of it. The blowers are your friend.
Being in Vancouver, do you use CMAX for your paint? If you do, they can order in Spies products for you, if you want to try their clears.
I know what I would do……just call them and tell them to come get their “F@#King paint”!!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl Just kidding hope ya get it figured out.
[quote=”Jayson M” post=21330]I know what I would do……just call them and tell them to come get their “F@#King paint”!!!! :rofl :rofl :rofl Just kidding hope ya get it figured out.[/quote]
Just don’t threaten to switch to Martin Senour…you want them to take you seriously :p
lol couple of the tech rep came down gave me standox clear to try and so far looks promising, however there are still minor minor solvent pop , however the clear is a slower dry clear
Ben we deal with CBS canadian body supplies Im not too sure if they have SPies Heckler clear
thank you everyone for their help Will keep you guys posted as the experiements/testing continues *sigh*
Cal
IT IS THE SEALER WE HAD THIS SAME PROBLEM, JUST MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE CHROMA PREMIER SEALERS! CASE SHOULD BE SOLVED.
plus it’s my understanding that the cromax isn’t a true wb system. as my ppg rep said that, when you flood on the materials it becomes hard to work with. it does sound like your base wasn’t dry enough, and the solvent pop is from the clear wanting to set to quickly.
why did you want to switch from enviro? honestly, i can put 3-4 coats of enviro on and dry and ready to paint in 10 mins., 2 coats of clear in another 7 mins., and i’m done by the time your done bakeing your base.
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