Getting Raped
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We have been using Montana Clears for over 12 years. We have had NO issues with it. We have used it over a multiple kinds (brands) of base coats. We purchase it for about $110.00 per kit( 1 gal. clear and 1 qt hardener). If you stick with the big boys you will lose money if you calculate material reimbursement per refinish hour. All clears are made from a small # of manufacturers. They just label them differently.
[quote=”Craig D” post=24147] All clears are made from a small # of manufacturers. They just label them differently.[/quote]
Really :blink:So montana clear is really re-packaged Sikkens autoclear Superior 250 :wak :rofl :rofl
Pretty much. It’s the same as gas. There are only so many refineries. Some companies may put their own “specialty” products in it to call it their own but it’s the same gas as everyone elses. But if you don’t believe it keep getting raped by the big boys. 😉
[quote=”Craig D” post=24170]Pretty much. It’s the same as gas. There are only so many refineries. Some companies may put their own “specialty” products in it to call it their own but it’s the same gas as everyone elses. But if you don’t believe it keep getting raped by the big boys. ;)[/quote]
Ok you keep thinking that :wak :rofl That is absolute BS any cheap clear I have ever used is junk,only good enough for jambs.Kind of interesting then why cheap clears die off or look skinny but the expensive ones hold there shine.So if I peel the label off my Superior 250, it’ll say DuPont 72200 on the can? Or will it say CarSystem? :blink:
[quote=”Ben” post=24176]So if I peel the label off my Superior 250, it’ll say DuPont 72200 on the can? Or will it say CarSystem? :blink:[/quote]
No. It will say Keystone Clear. Manufactured by LKQ Corporation. Relabeled as Akzo NobleClearcoats die back because of user error. The same reason clear coats peeled from the factory in the 90’s. It has nothing to do with their cost. Have you ever used a different brand hardener in your clear because you ran out of yours? It works!!!! :clappy
[quote=”ding” post=24178][quote=”Ben” post=24176]So if I peel the label off my Superior 250, it’ll say DuPont 72200 on the can? Or will it say CarSystem? :blink:[/quote]
No. It will say Keystone Clear. Manufactured by LKQ Corporation. Relabeled as Akzo Noble[/quote]
:lol1Craig, the reason your hardeners work is because its a catalyst for urethane…it will harden other urethanes…but it will turn it into a different monster all together.
different clearcoats can be miles apart in performance characteristics… sure the high $ stuff is hard to justify but its good product and its part of a paint system that you pay for everything right down to good customer service and product reps and warranties(as much as there worth :blink: )
try out a few different clears and sand them and buff them and recoat them, blend them and bend them to there paintable limits and see whats made of what. You generally get what you pay for.
Urethane technology has come a long way.
I know that gas is the same at any pump, I worked at a refinery back in the 50s but clear? that’s a horse a deferent color, you spray with the cheap stuff and the next day it lost the gloss, the more you spend on the clear the better the gloss after a few days. At least that’s my experience which is not as great as you guys. By the way “Merry Christmas”
Kennelly16,
I agree. I have painted for twenty years. I’ve used every big name on the market. I’ve used a lot of smaller names. End result in my experience is there are “cheaper clears” out there that are just as good and better than the expensive ones. Marketing of the big brands drive their cost up without the benefit of better performance. IMHO. I have made a business decision to use a “Cheaper” clear and for me it has been to my advantage. I did my own research and testing with different products and conclude that my customers are receiving the same end product at much lower cost to me , therefore giving me greater profit. I will say this again. I have had NO problems with the product I am using right now. My experience tells me that problems in the paint dept. come from wrong application not the product.
I have painted well over 25 years,it’s not my first rodeo.User error to paint problems is obvious,but not many painters will admit it.I have also sprayed almost every big companies product, and lots of cheap clears to see if we could save a buck.If what you are doing works for you great,but the ones I have tried have all been used the same way in regards to application and flash time…..it is the cheap product.For example I have used car system clear recently(bernardo ecinaro made in spain)used in the same booth,same gun,same flash time,air pressure….everything,it looks like crap the next day.When I spray superior with the same variables it looks great…..sorry I don’t buy it leave it at that….
i totally agree Jay.
[quote=”Craig D” post=24185]Kennelly16,
I agree. I have painted for twenty years. I’ve used every big name on the market. I’ve used a lot of smaller names. End result in my experience is there are “cheaper clears” out there that are just as good and better than the expensive ones. Marketing of the big brands drive their cost up without the benefit of better performance. IMHO. I have made a business decision to use a “Cheaper” clear and for me it has been to my advantage. I did my own research and testing with different products and conclude that my customers are receiving the same end product at much lower cost to me , therefore giving me greater profit. I will say this again. I have had NO problems with the product I am using right now. My experience tells me that problems in the paint dept. come from wrong application not the product.[/quote]
Craig I have experimented with a lot of these after market clears as well and have learned you can not spray them just like you do your favorite urethane. At least not always. Even the high performance urethane clears act differently from each other and take some tweeking with technique,gun setup, booth pressure, temp and what have you. before you guys out there throw your hands in the air and give up on a brand, READ the directions and then play with some different gun setups and application techniques and air pressure. There is one after market clear out there that others hate and we have sprayed dozens of show cars with it. No one believes me when I tell them the brand. All of these look great. Some after ten years and being driven often. But there are a few brands that are pure crap. I thought a hi tech Sikkens clears was terrible when I first sprayed it a lot of years ago, until a really good painter showed me how to setup my gun for that product. I had the same problem with Standox until I changed a couple of things.High price does not make a great product. The hardest thing to change is the painter. It takes a lot of training and observation to decide how many beers it takes to loosen him up and quit being a tight ass.
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