Getting Raped
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I disagree,I am open to change and trying new things(how about spraying waterborne now vs solvent for 22 years) and I can change my technique and conditions on the fly.The last time I tried a cheap clear I had the rep right there and he gave his suggestions,needless to say he didn’t sell us any 😛 I can’t speak for everyone but I read the tech sheets,and do it by the book,I don’t like doing things twice.What many people don’t realize is if they do have a problem who is going to warranty it,the little company or the big one?They will blame each other and you are on the hook for the redo 😉 I don’t care what a product costs as long as it works,but when it comes to paint and sprayguns you get what you pay for.A show car is also a good example that doesn’t mean anything,it could have died off and looked like shit but you are cutting and buffing anyway or sanding and re-clearing or both so that is a poor test.
I have done paint jobs using one major product line, start to finish and had them come up with an excuse not to pay when things go bad. Regardless of whether you are doing a spot or a complete, the clear needs to perform to give you the desired finish. Some cars do not require a glam clear nor does the customer want to pay for it. Some of us have a client base who will take whatever we give them and damn the costs. Others need an alternative. Go with whatever works, but don’t be afraid to experiment and try new things.
[quote=”Brad Larsen” post=24220]…nor does the customer want to pay for it. Some of us have a client base who will take whatever we give them and damn the costs. Others need an alternative. Go with whatever works, but don’t be afraid to experiment and try new things.[/quote]
This is the truth, you’ve got to give the customer what they wany, but you’ve got to make money too. In my time we have always kept atleast one cheaper clear option on hand for jams that we also use on older, ugly cars, or jobs that the customer wants it fixed and for cheap.
My other thought here is that you should look into other paint options. we use SW directly from a coporate store, and top line clear is nothing near that price.
I’ve also got to ask about the “choice” to use waterborn. I sprayed waterborn paints on almost every job for the last 4 years and FINALLY!!!! :dnc we are using a solvent system again. waterborn is the most difficult paint I’ve ever used, it is incompatible w/ solvent systems and thusly clearcolat delamination and loss of gloss are almost to be expected- unless you jump through those hoops just right and happen to get lucky too. Ever got a drop of waterborn in your solvent clear? or visa-versa? there is an immediate seperating reaction, yet they expect us to shoot that clear over that base coat… haha.I recommend using a “compliant” basecoat. We’re now using Sherwin ATX and it is low VOC, easy to use, and the clear is around $200 sprayable (1 gallon +1 qt catalyst) and it is California Compliant.
[quote=”AllAmericanCollisionllc” post=24221][quote=”Brad Larsen” post=24220]…nor does the customer want to pay for it. Some of us have a client base who will take whatever we give them and damn the costs. Others need an alternative. Go with whatever works, but don’t be afraid to experiment and try new things.[/quote]
This is the truth, you’ve got to give the customer what they wany, but you’ve got to make money too. In my time we have always kept atleast one cheaper clear option on hand for jams that we also use on older, ugly cars, or jobs that the customer wants it fixed and for cheap.
My other thought here is that you should look into other paint options. we use SW directly from a coporate store, and top line clear is nothing near that price.
I’ve also got to ask about the “choice” to use waterborn. I sprayed waterborn paints on almost every job for the last 4 years and FINALLY!!!! :dnc we are using a solvent system again. waterborn is the most difficult paint I’ve ever used, it is incompatible w/ solvent systems and thusly clearcolat delamination and loss of gloss are almost to be expected- unless you jump through those hoops just right and happen to get lucky too. Ever got a drop of waterborn in your solvent clear? or visa-versa? there is an immediate seperating reaction, yet they expect us to shoot that clear over that base coat… haha.I recommend using a “compliant” basecoat. We’re now using Sherwin ATX and it is low VOC, easy to use, and the clear is around $200 sprayable (1 gallon +1 qt catalyst) and it is California Compliant.[/quote]
how has Sherwin ATX treating u? hows color match, coverage, cost, durability etc?
[quote=”AllAmericanCollisionllc” post=24221][quote=”Brad Larsen” post=24220]…nor does the customer want to pay for it. Some of us have a client base who will take whatever we give them and damn the costs. Others need an alternative. Go with whatever works, but don’t be afraid to experiment and try new things.[/quote]
This is the truth, you’ve got to give the customer what they wany, but you’ve got to make money too. In my time we have always kept atleast one cheaper clear option on hand for jams that we also use on older, ugly cars, or jobs that the customer wants it fixed and for cheap.
My other thought here is that you should look into other paint options. we use SW directly from a coporate store, and top line clear is nothing near that price.
I’ve also got to ask about the “choice” to use waterborn. I sprayed waterborn paints on almost every job for the last 4 years and FINALLY!!!! :dnc we are using a solvent system again. waterborn is the most difficult paint I’ve ever used, it is incompatible w/ solvent systems and thusly clearcolat delamination and loss of gloss are almost to be expected- unless you jump through those hoops just right and happen to get lucky too. Ever got a drop of waterborn in your solvent clear? or visa-versa? there is an immediate seperating reaction, yet they expect us to shoot that clear over that base coat… haha.I recommend using a “compliant” basecoat. We’re now using Sherwin ATX and it is low VOC, easy to use, and the clear is around $200 sprayable (1 gallon +1 qt catalyst) and it is California Compliant.[/quote]
Delamination and loss of gloss are not normal for waterborne basecoat. Did you ever look into other brands? Some are alot nicer than others. I have used waterborne everyday for over 3 years and have not had the first failure. Honestly I think the gloss is better. I put it on my own car 3.5 to 4 years ago and still looks perfect.
[quote=”Craig D” post=24147]We have been using Montana Clears for over 12 years. We have had NO issues with it. We have used it over a multiple kinds (brands) of base coats. We purchase it for about $110.00 per kit( 1 gal. clear and 1 qt hardener). If you stick with the big boys you will lose money if you calculate material reimbursement per refinish hour. All clears are made from a small # of manufacturers. They just label them differently.[/quote]
While you are somewhat correct just because one plant manufactuers clear for different companies doesn’t mean it is the same stuff in the can. All big companies hold patents on certain resins and the such in products. Also just because you haven’t seen a job fail doesn’t mean that none have failed.
do tell what is this atx????
[quote=”bondomerchant” post=24230]do tell what is this atx????[/quote]
oh my …..its sherwins version of probase :blink: how long ya been using it????[quote=”MoCoke” post=24226]how has Sherwin ATX treating u? hows color match, coverage, cost, durability etc?[/quote]
It works great. Coverage is great! and covers 400 scratches (even though tech sheet recomends 600 or 800 for final sanding). Cost is comparable or a little better than Diamont or Martin senour (the other systems I’m familiar with) The only issue i find is tinting the color! the chips are very good for comparison but the color is so strong that unless you are mixing a Lot of paint one drop of toner changes it dramatically making tiniting a little tricky.we opened 2 months ago with Sherwin support. so I’ve been using ATX for 2 months.
[quote=”bondomerchant” post=24231][quote=”bondomerchant” post=24230]do tell what is this atx????[/quote]
oh my …..its sherwins version of probase :blink: how long ya been using it????[/quote]
Oh Boy :sick: :pcorn::p :rofl :rofl
Im gonna try going with a different system, but not planning on jumping into anything just yet. Jayson M is telling me that the Lesonal waterbase is great for the cost and is about 30-40% cheaper than the Nexa. Anyone else using the lesonal water? how is it? If i dont switch brands at least it will still give me some leverage on my jobber :woohoo:
[quote=”smooth” post=24250]Im gonna try going with a different system, but not planning on jumping into anything just yet. Jayson M is telling me that the Lesonal waterbase is great for the cost and is about 30-40% cheaper than the Nexa. Anyone else using the lesonal water? how is it? If i dont switch brands at least it will still give me some leverage on my jobber :woohoo:[/quote]
Haven’t used it. Their solvent was fantastic. My rep tells me that the water is very similar to the Autowave, just possibly a little more transparent. If that is the case, I am sure you will find it an easy transition from the Nexa, and with colour matches that are likely a little better.
if your gonna go the akzo route, why not go with wanda? i used their solvent line, primers and clears and i thought they were great and the price was great too. i think they recently added a water system which i bet is just as good if not better.
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