Gins with no seals – Machined Mechanics
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I was wondering.. singe you guys have more experience with brands of guns and models..
Which guns have no seals /soft parts/ to maintain sealing of air/fluid.I had opened my Air Gunsa AZ3HTE2 and I was astonished with the mechanical precision of the gun.. There is no seal anywhere except one that is made from POM plastics for low friction.. all pistons are machined..
Just wondering.. seals die back over time and work.. isn’t it a better option to have mechanical sealing rather than using seals that will wear out.. I mean an internal combustion engine uses piston rings to seal which are way harder than the piston material that is why they last..
the one major drawback is when metal to metal parts eventualy wear the gun may well be scrap as oposed to more sacrificial replacable seals ,if i am not mistaken that model has an inline coaxial air and fluid control and will have seals as will the needle bearing at the gun head
http://www.spraygunsdirect.co.uk/product_parts.php?products_id=6096
I dismantled the whole gun and did not see any seals.. only guides.. if a seal can be classified #35 a packing set which is made from POM plastics with Teflon.. maybe.. I don’t know.. But I like the gun very much.. Very precisely machined, no gaps.. everything fits perfectly.. The Sagola is the same in construction idea no seals
Anyway.. I have an upcoming project and I will have the funds to get additional gun..
I like Sagola 4500 Extreme.. and also I like Sata 4000 rp..
Which one would you choose?
SATA
[quote=”ding” post=33420]SATA[/quote]
Sata have seals and of all the guns i have used they seem to fail more frequantly than most ,along with pot lids that fail ,funnily enough Walcom guns share some componants with Sata such as the air micrometer seals which are interchangable between the two marques and guess what the Walcom micrometers fail just as regularly as do the air shut off seals again shared with Walcom guns so they tend to bleed air constantly when they fail to seat correctly
Sata possible the worst example of a seal system that fails and to add insult to injury they are amongst the most overpriced guns on the market as well ,plastic control nobs as well which crack and split or turn on their spindles along with the chrome flaking off
they do spray nice enough though but as for overall quality ,not impressed at all
After 14 years of owning Sata’s the only thing i’ve ever had to replace on them were the air distribution rings. never had a seal fail or chrome fall off yet. Never had any sort of failure due to build quality. Maybe they are different on the other side of the pond
I have been around satas since the late 80’s and agree with Ding.I have a sata jet 90 that is 24 years old and a sata rp that is 14 years old,both of them have original seals(teflon by the way that are tough)and nozzle sets.Both of these guns have been used daily and still spray great.Satas are a reliable workhorse and you get what you pay for,lots of people hate on them for the price but you can’t beat them for reliability.
My Sata 3000 digtial has a seal leaking (With the air turned all the way off the lowest I can go down to is 13 psi). But I have had it 10 years trouble free. Coming up on one year on the Sagolas, but I use them much more than I did the Sata initially as well. No problems so far.
There’s a reason our Technical Schools use nothing but SATAs, they are taken apart and reassembled and handled ( probably abused ) more than they should, a gun of lesser quality would not be up to the task. I’ve only had mine for 9yrs, of the 5 SATAs I have, no issues other than a Dist Ring in my KLC primer gun.
both my minjets pass air as the seals have worn after not a fantastic lot of use ,issues with the airsplitter nobs cracking and turning on thier spindles ,,My Sata 95 has worn out its micrometre seal and passes air out of the front of the trigger plunger as well as wont shut off air properly ,friends sata minis both have similar issues and as for pot lids on minijets especialy its hard to get one to last above six months or so if used regularly ,big guns suffer similar issues and when you take into account the price of a sata lid or cup then the quality doese not in any way keep up with the price of the units
i have found my iwata guns after much use and abuse have been absolutly bullet proof
my Optima has been superb but again the pot lids on this german gun are dire ,even worse than Sata as the seal lip splits away on the lid
sagolas after years of daily service not an issue in sight ,again bullet proof
Walcom guns suffer similar micrometre issue to Sata but as they use the same componants then to be expected but spares are substantialy cheaper ,pots great but again they start to pass air after a while like my experiance with the Sata guns the mini STM is very prone to passing air as well but Walcom always throw in a complete rebuild kit with their guns so i cant complain too much about them lol i use the geo and Fx kits to rebuild my Sata micrometres which is a bonus
ive got an older AirGunza with an inline air and fluid control which now passes air and unfortunatly the repair kits make it more feasable to just buy another gun as the latest HTE is usualy found discounted heavily where rebuild kits are always full price
probelms with sata digitals and your into heavy money as sata do not sell repair kits and the gun has to be sent in to a service agent with a minimum £75 charge and that doesnt include parts
whilst i wouldnt kick a sata out of bed i would never pony up for new one as they are stupidly overpriced and expensive to service ,on retail ide say the sagols are overpriced as well as are Optimas and to prove that point you can buy a rebranded Optima for half or less than the price of a Bersch and Fratscher version with the higher spec built in PSI guage
iwata supernova ,first edition suffered pot thread issues and nobs falling off ,again an extremly overpriced gun which intialy had build quality issues now resolved with the Evolution model
iwata G6 mini ,needles out of line to nozzle ,two i have owned had needles biased top the top right of the nozzles creating excesive wear
so guys its not a sata bash as most marques will have issues 😉
Been using My SATA EVERY DAY for 3 years, absolutely no issues and none in sight. The gun performs flawlessly every time and i am very impressed with it. My father is a painter for well over 30 years and was a die hard devilbiss guy but now i catch him reaching for the SATA. Sata make excellent guns, and when you think about it they are not that over priced, i only payed $600 for mine through my jobber, i payed almost $500 for my teknas and IMO they are only half the gun when it comes to quality. I cant help to think PPl come on here knowing we like Sata and talk shit about them to get a rise. Haters will Hate! :rock
I dont get the cost argument. My tool box cost me $6500. any good wrench set will run you almost 500. a basic socket set is almost $250. 450 for a good 1/2 drive impact gun etc…..
So for a painter to cry about $600 for a spray gun that is his main tool is just plain stupid.
I remember hearing about the iwata fan control knobs breaking but honestly this is the first I have ever heard about any kind of major issues with a SATA.
Compared to other guns they may be a little more expensive but I believe they are worth every penny. About $135 more than a Tekna will cost me, About $50 more than a Sagola, havent priced any Iwata’s out but I know the list of the iwatas is right up there with SATA. A Sagola cup costs about 50% more than a SATA cup does so that pretty much evens out the price.
Again, to each his own, but I have never encountered any of the issues you describe with SATA guns. and after 14 years of nothing but reliability, Gonna be tough to make me believe otherwise.
One thing to note is, most of the time when I hear people complaining about seal failure, I find out they leave their guns in the spray gun washer. Bad habit to get into and one that will destroy any gundecisions decisions,do i purchase the Befrag Optima Trifity for £600 or buy the Nordson Trilogy for £199 ,same gun made by the same company but rebranded ,dont delude yourselves into believing your paying for the quality of the gun when you are in fact paying for the distribution network where everyone wants their finger in the pie
lets take Iwata for instance ,manufactured in Japan ,distributed through Italy to Anest Iwata UK distributer then on to their dealers ,each time they change hands through that network the price increases ,now lets work it backwards and you may find that the actual manufacturing costs are comparable to some chinese crap and iwata do indeed have stuff manufactured for them in mainland China
major dealerships can often command some 65% discount from full RRP ,now go figure what the distributer is paying then go figure what his supplier paid from the factory that made them ,then you will have an idea of what is realy going on in the trade 😉
most of the major gun manufacturers are price fixing ,please note many will no longer allow dealers to advertise prices and anyone discounting on Ebay is quickly delt with by way of reducing their buy in discount ,and i can assure you that is policy for at least one major manufacturer
I like my Sagola and my Sata. Sagola sprays great, cleans up easy, and has held up great so far. Some things I really like about the Sata are how the air cap is almost a single turn on/off, and the cup is the same way. The Sagola cap is about a 4 turn. Same with the cup. Not a huge deal, just something I found I like about the Sata. I have had trouble with the Sata digial gauge pretty much since I got it, but never enough to want to put it down. Never enough to even bother looking into why either. Sagola digital gauge is working great, but the control for the pressure is an add on part. Something I didnt know when I bought it and would prefer if it were part of the gun. The reason I get digitals is because I use the supplied cups, and it can be difficult to paint under rockers and such with a long gun. Just some differences I have seen. I think if I could find Sata guns for the prices other guys here get them at, it would have been a much more difficult decision for me between the two. I got my Sagolas for about $350 each, and the price for Sata that I have found in my area were $750 or more. For me that was a big difference for what I felt was the same tool.
You know I did demo a 4400 extreme with the clear cap and a 1.4 and I could get a nice looking job with it.But I could really take or leave its performance as it just didn’t fit the way I paint.I just didn’t find it comfortable,it was big and bulky compared to other guns and the big sloppy trigger got annoying,not to mention speed was just not there.After looking at the parts breakdown of the gun it looks like there are still a couple of seals.I think you need to try different guns to see if they meet your needs,no gun is perfect for everyone.Everyoneseems to forget that its the guy pulling the trigger that makes the difference.
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