HELP HELP!!! paint reaction!!! what’s wrong??
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WEll…I have to learn sometime…and maybe that time is now.
And like some wise man said once: We learn from our mistakes, so we won’t do them again.You have NO IDEA how MUCH stuff I just learned from all the post that are above!
I just want to say HUGE THANK YOU to all!!!!And All you Pro’s: thank you! thank you! thank you! for being so patient with me!
I know how frustrating it is to teach a N00b something elementary that you’ve learned 20 years ago 🙁And someday I want to get to your guy’s level…and the only way to do so..is to learn from the best (you guys).
Thank you for replies.
More suggestions are welcome!Also….can you guys PLEEEZE give me a list of all the best compatible products to you?
What do you guys use?
What brand and type of:
PRIMER?
SEALER?
BASECOAT?
CLEARCOAT?
BLENDER?Now I learned from you that DuPont is one of the WORST Basecoats to use…Thank You for teaching me that!
Please let me know what is the best option to use regarding solvents?
Thanks in advance..You don’t exactly have to throw away all your materials and buy new ones. You can still paint the car with your basecoat, but you have to understand the surface underneath has to be perfect. Sand it all down, primer your areas, then just continue.
I would see what Jobbers are around your area I have Martin Senour , PPG and BASF by me I have used them all no problems with any of them, they can help with problems and are invaluable at times.
I have never used the Finish One(martain senour)clear before, And I only sprayed dupont once(Centari) way back in the day for an Insurace job on a Semi Grain Trailer havent used Dupont Since (Not that it was bad just no jobbers by my house)And all of us have been where you are , No one is immune to paint problems. You will learn and thats what this site is about.
and I would say time and temp are factors in your Problem
We all know you need to follow the tech sheets for the product used (still looking where it says to use the heat gun lol)
But ya sand it down , spray some sealer and start over and just do the whole panel dont make extra work for yourself sometimes when you cut corners to do the job in half the time it takes four times as long
Another note If Grandma finds out you been masking cars with her bed sheets your in for a heap of trouble (also cloth is a very bad masking material) stick to plastic or paper only please will keep trash out of you clear. canvas wheel covers are allowed
sounds like you got a real mess there …. the guys are right you wrinkled your first applications and now need to start from scratch … you need to get back down to your original repair and start over and do it right this time …. you may be painting the whole side now. :kofee
Lots of DuPont haters I see… I have used alot of diff brands myself but mostly Dupont. I have no complaints at all.
Each product has its own technique, follow the proper procedures and all will be A-okay, just my 2 cents.If you can find a local jobber that sells RM paints then you can get everything you need from them in the RM line, Sikkens is good too. There are many it just depends how much you want to spend. I shoot RM Diamont and I have NEVER had a problem with lifting like you had. You need to strip what you’ve done down to where you started, shoot a quality sealer and then base and clear. Good luck and yes, you learn from your mistakes but typically not on someone else’s car.
This has nothing to do with Brand, it’s simply because
#1: He cut right through fresh clear into fresh Basecoat (The basecoat which lifted)
#2: He did not Harden his Basecoat, thus it easily reacts to solvents when exposed to them again. thus Lifting itself, and anything above it. (IE any Clear edges)And every Solvent Based Base/Clear System I’ve ever used when the base is not catalyzed will do just that. (RM Diamont, PPG, Valspar, Martin Manure.)
To be honest, RM Diamont has been one of the worse I’ve seen for doing that. (I guess because it uses pretty “Hot Solvents” and doesn’t flash off quite as fast as some of the others I’ve seen.)
His first mistake was not hardening his basecoats.
His Second Mistake was when he cut through his fresh clear, into his fresh non catalyzed Basecoat he did not seal his burn thru’s prior to basing again. (And yes, a lot of Urethane sealers will do just as his base did and cause it to lift like that.)As far as solutions. There’s a lot of solutions to fix this.
Some are more risky then others.You can Sand down where it is lifting. And probably get away with a Waterbased Sealer, or an Epoxy sealer. Just to lock your burn thru’s down.
But I would probably give it a few days to off gas prior to sealing it. Simply because Epoxies and Waterbased sealers don’t off gas as fast as Urethanes, thus you probably don’t want to be placing another system like that directly over the fresh clear until it slows down on it’s off gassing a little.
Then Base the damn thing… And no you don’t mist it to do a blend, you reduce your basecoats with a Clearbase, or basecoat Blender (Not Reducer, Basically just transparent basecoat) Then work your way out from each coat, reducing it more and more each time (each step out your base becomes more transparent, thus blending more and more into your blend area)
Or if you just did a spot blend with your basecoat just sand down and get rid of all your basecoat in that area. Seal, and reapply base. then clear…
And by the way… The whole blending clear on that?
wtf were you thinking? Blending clear is not the way to go, Blending clear is a crutch. Something you do only when you absolutely have to. (It’s not a lasting repair, and it’s extremely hard to make it an invisible one)
Always clear the whole panel.
The mere fact that you blended clear simply to avoid doing a single stroke on that pillar?
What?! Mask to the damn pillar and clear the whole damn thing… :chair :compsmash :chairAnd also the Sheets thing?
You can use sheets for Primers. (Never directly up to your primer edge, more less just to keep mists off surrounding area’s) But you always want to use Coated Papers, or Paintable Plastic sheeting for your Base/Clear. Otherwise you’re just begging for garbage/lint to be flying off and land into your paint job.I would personally sand it all off and start over, even just fixing the lifting areas is a short term fix. Basecoat that has been very lightly applied will have adhesion problems w/ clear, I have seen it first hand. Sand it all off and start over,wouldnt take much at this point. Prime everything, sand with 500 dry or 400-600 wet put on 2 medium wet coats of color, reduce your last coat and blend it out. 2 coats of clear and you are done, dont use sheets like Rat said. You can buy plastic for automotive finishes for around 25 dollars a roll. I would also loosen the bumper cover and pull tail light while you are at it.. Is this your car or a customers?
[quote=”svldvc” post=19416]Also….can you guys PLEEEZE give me a list of all the best compatible products to you?
What do you guys use?
What brand and type of:
PRIMER?
SEALER?
BASECOAT?
CLEARCOAT?
BLENDER?Now I learned from you that DuPont is one of the WORST Basecoats to use…Thank You for teaching me that!
Please let me know what is the best option to use regarding solvents?
Thanks in advance..[/quote]Wow. Sounds like you’ve gotten a lot of good advice. As mentioned, DuPont is not a bad product, everyone has their prefrence, all products have their pros and cons. Now you just need to learn to use DuPont a little better or find the product that works best for you.
I concur that stripping tour paint is a great start, and that painting the entire panel is the right thing to do. Also as mentioned, removing the tail lamp and removing or dropping the corner of the rear bumper will make the job easier and allow you to prep better around the edges.
You may want to stick with DuPont since you have the products. The best thing to do is stick with one brand and use the appropriate system with it (ie: Chroma Seal, Chroma Base, Chroma Clear). Which clear are you using? The activator for the ChromaClear is the same activator for Chromabase (7775S or12305S), if you have it, use it in your base. The HC-7776S Snap Dry clear is the fastest and possibly easiest clear. It is good in non-ideal spraying conditions, the only downfall is that its finish is not as good as the other clears and may be a little too fast for you. The nice thing with this clear is it shares the hardener with the base coat and it can be mixed with the slow G2-7779S clear in any ratio to obtain a clear that will suit your speed and conditions. The more of the G2-7779S you use, the better the finish, but the dry and flash times will be slower.
Just some points to ponder. If you want to stick with DuPont, they have a lot of products to offer and can get you the result you want.
Okay…1st off…I wanted to say a HUMANGO HUGE THANK YOU TO ALL!!! (especially Rat) for critiquing me and helping me get my head straight and do this the CORRECT way!
Thank you so so SOOOOoo much! Means a lot to me.1.)I will srip the areas that are “burned through” and will seal it all and let it dry for a few days and then Base it again with wet coats.
2.)I will remove my “cloth” junk and buy the adhesive paint paper/film.
3.)I will Clear coat the WHOLE Quarter AND the whole pillar all the way to the front (as suggested) NO fading the Clear!
…because I got the idea of fading the Clear Coat using Blender here: [color=#4400ff]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vts4fJn6-6U[/color]and here: [color=#ff0000]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T8gbQ1iYkU[/color]
**I couldn’t find the RM Blender so I bought the DuPont Blender**
So RAT told me that I didn’t use a hardener in my Basecoat. What kind of hardener should I have used? (DuPont)?
..**also, HOW do I properly use the Hardener? How much do I mix in? Just a teeny-bit?**
**reason I’m asking is because the supplier where I buy all this stuff is not customer friendly and doesn’t know JACK SQUAT about painting** 🙁 :chairAlso Is PPG better than DuPont? (easier to work with?) Becase I also have a PPG supplier near me…haven’t heard of any other brands..
And YES…the car is mine… not customers. 😛
and one more thing….can you guys give me links or suggest where I can find Good DVD’s that teach how to Paint & do all other shop stuff properly?
I’m a fast learner and I’m very eager to learn, but I have no money/time for school right now 🙁 So want to learn on my own. (And Of course with YOUR guys’s help) 😀 😀Most all basecoats have a hardener available for the system.
You can get buy without it, but using it provides better chip resistance and it prevents messes like this, simply because it makes the base not so easily softened by solvents.What hardener you should use entirely depends on the Basecoat you’re using, your P-sheets should inform you of this.
If I remember correctly ChromaBase uses Chroma Premier #12305S Activator. (Don’t quote me on this, Refer to the P-Sheets!)As far as brands go. Dupont is fine, just a little less user friendly then some others out there.
If you got the Dupont Materials, use them.Also I agree with Joe. because you misted so much on there, the basecoat you put on is pretty dry, and probably fairly unstable.
Since this was a spot repair, you don’t have a whole lot of base on there. Just strip all the Basecoat you applied off, then buzz down the rest. The Hardened Clear won’t react to solvents the way the un-activated Basecoat did. So you shouldn’t have any issue as long as you don’t have any of that basecoat you applied exposed. You want to remove all of it, because if you even have an edge of unactivated basecoat beneath your clear exposed the solvents will seap into it beneath your clearcoat and raise your clearcoat edge. Basically causing the exact same problem. so it’s best to remove it.After that, Then just seal the area where you removed the base, and start over.
The one issue you’re going to have is if you don’t sand all the clear you applied down, you’re going to have to build the area where you stripped the unactivated basecoat back up. Otherwise you’ll basically have a big indent from not having all that film build in that area. So just knock all the clear you applied down, and give yourself a fresh smooth surface to start with again.
Like I said about blending Clear.
It’s a crutch. Generally the only reason it is performed ever is in a situation where they have to. (Like the body man chipped the bumper installing it, and the car gets picked up in a few hours, you don’t have time to redo the whole thing.)A Clear blend will never be a lasting repair, as the original clear and the new clear fades at different rates the edges will begin to become visible. and the old fading clear will begin the make the new clear edge slowly lift.
Like I said, blending base is not done through misting, it’s done through mixing in transparent basecoat. (It has many names. but it’s basically basecoat, which has no color added to it.) And accomplishing your fade by gradually making your color more transparent. (Usually by the time you get to the end of your blend area the mixed basecoat looks nearly like clearcoat with metallics in it.)
:agree Rat knows his sheet
Dont waste your money on DVD’s
This site and if you search youtube will yield you just as good as any DVD just keep looking and reading the forums
its your car so you got something to practice on
I use PPG DBC not sure of the cost difference between PPG and Dupont but DBC Is not a cheap paint but not Very expensive either around $50.00-$90.00 pint(base)
add reducer($50.00 gal) and basecoat hardener($37.00 half pint) could cost 150.00 and up just for the base ,If you like Dupont and already have most of the supplies to use it then keep using it.
If you use all your supplies up then so be it try another brand (then you need to learn how the new stuff works lol)
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