How to stop towels from leaving faint scratches?
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I’m working on finishing up my first black paint job and I’m having a problem getting it to finish out as nice as I would like.
I’m getting very faint, very fine lines in the clear. It looks to me like the microfiber towels I am using are leaving ultra fine scratches in the clear. I’ve never noticed this problem before, but I’ve never done a black car that had to be super nice either.
The final step before wax or glaze to my finishing process is polishing with 3M ultrafina and a foam pad. Once I wipe the Ultrafina residue off the car, in the right light I’m seeing very faint lines that run in the same direction I’ve wiped.
Any tips on how to get the best finish possible on the car would be appreciated.
Yup. one of the down sides of color sanding, super hard and very time consuming. I shoot for a nice finish off the gun,IMO it looks better for longer, with color sanding if its not done correctly ( long way around) all you are doing is chasing swirls. Key is to keep your pads and towels as clean as possible or i have found is to wipe up with a detailer spray.
[quote=”Neat” post=32643]I’m working on finishing up my first black paint job and I’m having a problem getting it to finish out as nice as I would like.
I’m getting very faint, very fine lines in the clear. It looks to me like the microfiber towels I am using are leaving ultra fine scratches in the clear. I’ve never noticed this problem before, but I’ve never done a black car that had to be super nice either.
The final step before wax or glaze to my finishing process is polishing with 3M ultrafina and a foam pad. Once I wipe the Ultrafina residue off the car, in the right light I’m seeing very faint lines that run in the same direction I’ve wiped.
Any tips on how to get the best finish possible on the car would be appreciated.[/quote]
What kind of microfibers are you using? You can buy some really nice ones from Advance Auto Parts. The brand name is Griot’s and are extremely soft. I went through what you are talking about with my truck when I first painted it. Black is a tough color to get perfect and keep that way. I eventually found out that the 3m pads are crap. I switched over to a porter cable 7424 random orbital polisher with Lake Country pads and a Menzerna polish and it fixed all my problems. I hear the new 3D Polishes are pretty awesome too. What kind of clear did you put on it? Some clears are softer than others obviously and scratch easy. You should go check out http://www.autopia.org Those guys over there really know their stuff when it comes to a perfect finish. If I were you I would skip the glaze and buy some Optimum Polymer Technologies Spray Wax. It is fresh paint safe, does an amazing job and can be sprayed anywhere on the vehicle without worrying about staining.
I usually buy the microfiber towels from CarQuest, they come in a pack of 24 for about $25. I have a few Cobra MF towels kicking around, and some other brands here and there. I’ll try the Griot ones from Advance if the ones I ordered from CarQuest tonight continue to cause problems for me.
I agree about sanding and what not, it’s a huge pain. This car belongs to a good friend of mine, and unfortunately I’m not good enough with the gun to leave the clear flat enough to give it back to him. It’s tough for me to let it go with the orange peel in it.
I’m using 3M products and Lake Country pads.
Clear is PPG DC2021.
If someone is willing to critique my process, here’s what I have done:
-3 coats of the 2021 clear.
-Sanded all the orange peel and debris out of the paint with 3M 1500 grit dry on a 6 inch DA.
-I tried sanding it by hand with a soft block and 2000 grit but abandoned this after fighting with deep scratches caused by some invisible piece of debris in the paper, in the water, or on the car. It seemed that no matter what I did, I always ended up leaving lines / scratches behind that were obviously caused by a piece of debris under the paper.
-Buff with wool pad and 3M 05973 Perfect it 2 rubbing compound on a rotary buffer. My buffer doesn’t have RPM, just a wheel with numbers, but I ran the buffer almost as slow as it would go. 1200 RPM’s is my guess.
-Polish with the same rotary buffer using a white Lake Country pad, and 3M machine polish 05996. The white pad is a medium / light cutting pad.
-Polish with Porter Cable 7424, black Lake Country pad, and 3M Ultra fine polish. I don’t remember the part number, it’s the blue stuff. The black pad has no cut to it.At this point, I’m ready to go to wax. However, when I wipe off the Ultra Fine I notice the fine scratches.
As an aside, buffing out the 1500 grit scratches took what seemed like an eternity. I noticed 3M has come out with a 5000 grit sanding / polishing paper now. Could I have gone from the 1500 straight to the 5000, or would I have to use a 2000 or 3000 in between those steps? I’m much more likely to damage the finish on the car with the buffer and the wool pad than I am with the DA and some sand paper, so by sanding with a finer grit paper I was hoping to shorten the time with the wool pad and the buffer – which would reduce the chance of me damaging the finish.
In the future, if I can go from 1500 to 5000, then to buffing/polishing, I would probably do it. If the jump from 1500 to 5000 shouldn’t be done without an intermediate grit paper, I’ll be tempted just stick with buffing out the 1500 grit scratches with a wool pad and compound as opposed to making another entire lap around the car with the intermediate grit paper.
I’ve gone from 1500 to 3000 and seems to work fine. The finer you can get the surface sanded the easier and better looking the buffing will turn out. Seems like you are doing things right to me. Is it scratches you are seeing after wiping or the oils in the polish leaving streaks? Mix up some isopropyl alcohol and water and wipe down an area and see what that does. Other than that you may just have to deal with it until it hardens up a bit more. Understand though that your friends is likely to scratch it up the first time he washes it anyway.
Are you using the same cloth to wipe the surface that you used for removing the compound?
If so it’s a common problem and it’s the compound residue left on the cloth that’s marking the surface rather than the cloth itself. Different cloths for each grade of polish will cure that.
I go from 1000 to 3000.. no problems. I have found a no name brand that makes the absolute perfect buffing discs. No swirls super glazed finish.
Regarding the cloth. I use Sonax detailing cloths, Green color, about 5 eur [7usd] a piece, and I use also super soft detailing cloth for final cleaning. Both microfiber.
What companies do not tell you is that you need to activate the microfibers..
The way you activate them is to leave them in a almost boiling water for about 30 mins.. then dry them and then use them.Do not lean on the part being polished.. even light pressure is required and more passes. Let the microfibers do the work..
Yep, wash your microfibre towels in hot water using liquid, not powder, washing detergent. Only use a brand that looks clear, not milky like some because these have the same fine grit that powders have. Makes your clothes feel like they’ve been starched but stays in the towels and will scratch the paint. Finish the microfibre towels off in the dryer for super softness but never use fabric softener.
We wash the car after compounding and are then really fussy about cleanliness. Fold microfibre towels in quarters and keep changing the face you use, then change towels often.
Apparently it was a towel issue. My MF towels were clean / machine washed, but they were also older towels that had been used / washed several times. Brand new towels solved the problems. Thanks!
I was going to say never use a washed towel on your final stage with black mate,only new cloths as even cleaned ones seem to mark the paint.
Also have you tried the 3m trizact or mirka abralon foam sanding pads on da ? They finish the surface with 3000 and give it a semi gloss so is easier to buff,the meguiars 101 compound is good for black cars too,much quicker process with the 3000 foam discs.hope this helps.
Hey mate, say your using the 3m blue which is a anti hologram me remover, with the buff pad are you using the 3m blue waffle pad to go with it. Also and I ask are you just polishin from side to side. As you do need to go from side to side the up to down and from top left to bottom right.
Are you using a pre cleaner or detailers spray between compounds and polishe etc. once I’ve used a compound and wiped the panel down I spray water on the paint and work it in as its pills out the compound out the finer scratches so you can see and re work the areas needed, I no it sounds weird but you can to a degree polish with water and the left over compound on the pad, don’t let the compound dry on the pad keep it wet as is will put fine scratches called marring. When you say you finish with the blue 3m did you start with the green top, then yellow the blue, I’ve got the purple trizact but find it to course for black. After the blue what do you put on after that, meguiars do a machine polish glaze which is good. Or a liquid polish I do use others but there from the uk.
I find that a self lubricating compound like megs and menzerna better as sometimes the water applied with other compounds heats up and leaves bad holograms.i like menzerna fg500 too and they do an excellent spray cleaner to use to clean excess compound off quickly.i also wash the compound pads after each panel but spin it off so its only mildly damp before polishing.
The trizact 3000 are only a finishing pad to remove as many sanding scratches from 1500 or 2000 and brings a semi gloss which is easier to buff.the issue is often the soft waxes not the actual clearcoat ,wax will mark extremly easily ,i like to use a fluffed cotton material but ultimatly you will never achieve perfection other than aplying a perfect flowcoat and no polishing whatsoever ,once wax is aplied your back to the same issue agian though
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