Looking for advice on how to speed up body work.
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I graduated college in May? of 2012. Been at my employer for a year in Nov. I’m kind of starting to learn the ins and outs of having an autobody tech career but I’m wondering a couple things. 1. Whats your work process for getting best “efficiency” numbers(How do you do good & fast work)? 2. What all do employers ask in an interview for autobody techs and/or painters? 3. What does a collision repair tech usually handle(Repair & replace lot of radiator supports? A lot of frame damage?)
I can’t remember what my numbers were but I’m learning more about efficiency numbers and that being an autobody tech you want high % if you want raises or compensation. I’llget more into my process a bit later as I’ll probably ramble.
#3 I ask because I actually work at a used car lot and what we do there is all superficial stuff. Bumpers scuffs, ding a fender, fill a dog leg. Mostly small-ish kind of dent work so its not a full collisiong repair shop and I’m wondering what all most people do at collision repair shops. Like retail stores. Whats the aderage stuff that comes in the door and what do you all usually do with it? Replace with new or it vary on job to job? Mostly side impacts that go into the door frame? Mostly replacing fenders or skinning 1/4’s?
Now, my process at work usually goes about like this:
Car comes in – lets say its a bumper, one palm size dent and few good scratches.
Take bumper off – .5-.75
Disassembly bumper – .25-.5
Heat dent, sand scratches w/ 180, then 240 – maybe 1.0 or 1.25 if smallish job – maybe 1.5-2.0
Prime it – let dry at least 1.5 hours so find something else to do
Sand primer with DA 240(quick 180 if its bad texture/etc), block out with 240 or 320
DA 320 everything quick-ish, DA everything again with 600, hand scuff nooks and cranies – 1.0(or 1.5, maybe 2.0 or complex bumpers)
Then it goes to paint, thats the bosses job since we’ve switched over to PPG I don’t get to paint anymore but it’d usually take me like 1-1.5 hours to paint whatever using 10-15 minute set times
______________So thats the body time.
Then it come out of the booth, I slap it back on the car and it takes about same time going on as coming off depending on any issues.
Now, if its a fender or 1/4 or hood, etc, we hit it with 1000 and buff it out with a wool pad and 2 stage(sometimes) compound. Malco Super Duty stuff and Buff Lite. They don’t use 1500 or 3000 and its annoying because I like to use that.
Say a hood on a newer impala. Was cleared, I’m sanding the orange peel off.
Sand orange peel – ~.5
Buff the entire hood to shine – 1.5-2.0
_____________________________________________Do these numbers seem fair? I mean would these be ok? I know I could probably put things back on faster and maybe get away with a bit sloppier of body work but I like to take some pride and like hearing the boss man say the body work feels good even if it took me an extra .25 or .5. I’ll be honest that I don’t bust my ass as work but I always stay working. When I have nothing to do I look for something. I don’t purposely work slow. I might forget a tool or walk across the shop a couple times to finally collect everything I need but others that is usually my work flow and about how long it takes me to do stuff.
Any critiques or share any thoughts on how to speed things up or anything?
Where do body shops make their numbers, in doing the actual repairs fast and trying to beat the refinish times?
Kind of tough to answer that….Every shop is different and it looks like your boss wants a quick turnaround for used car work which is the only way to do it due to limited $$$.When it comes to collision work every one goes buy an estimate program (mitchell/adp) for the times.The longer you do it the more experience you will get and the speed will come.Eventually you will have to get into a collision shop or something that deals with every aspect of the repair process vs quick used car work.I’m not saying that kind of work is bad,your just not going to get well rounded experience.Good luck
Jayson gave good advice. One thing to remember. Focus on quality and speed will come with repetition. If you focus on speed first you never learn quality.
Also, having to sand with 1000 to buff sounds like a bit much. if there is that much texture focus on learning to spray good also. I would rather spend an extra 30-45 minutes on prep and spraying to save 1-2 hours buffing.
Jayson –
Thats actually where I’m at right now. I know if I stick around at this place I’m going down a road where I can’t do other repair work. I’d like to find another job where I get more experience in actual repair work but I like the place and trying to save for a place and all that. I talked to a jobber here and he said the other shops in the area have been only steady, not busy. But winters coming so I’m hoping maybe something will come up. I’m familiar with book times and refinish times. Is there anyway to view these online without having to pay? Like an online crash book or anything? I should google that.
Ryan –
I’ve focused on quality for awhile now and feel sometimes I’m focusing to much of quality when I end up nitpicking something. Then I look over to the next guy who just fills twice, leaves pin holes, primes, fills pinholes in the primer, sands then re-primes. IMO, does ok quick work, gets it in primer, works it out and reprimes. Ends up I think he spends about the same time as I do maybe. Maybe a little faster.
As for the sanding, we don’t do that on everything. We denib with wet 1000. Sometimes we sand whole panels. He says not for orange peel, just to get defects out. I’m still not sure what he wants when it comes to sanding clear. Just denib or sand out the orange peel? I don’t know…
Jayson, by collision shop standards are those decent times? I presume some work does come in shops thats mostly cosmetic.
Anyways, thanks for the replies.
Good job at recognizing that you must sacrifice quality instead of speed. The reality is that you’re in the wrong place to ask for advice because there isn’t enough people who are on the path that you are on and that’s a real shame because I learn tricks from local painters all the time that could really help people out.
Now to give you an idea on how you can improve; what if I told you that you only had 2 hours to do that job? Where would you make up all that time and what are the changes you must make to get you the flawless work that your customer demands?
Obviously this is a recipe for disaster but from those disasters you will grow leaps and bounds. I’ve said it before but productivity is about the little things, you really can be 2, 4, 8 times faster.
Never sacrifice quality for speed,learn how to do it right the first time and speed comes from repetition.When it comes to bumper repairs most of them are 2hrs for R&I,1.5-2hrs to refinish,it would be impossible to do it 4-6 times faster :unsure: that statement makes no sense.With that said 3-4 hrs is not a lot of time to completely strip and restore/repair a bumper,most times its faster to put on a new aftermarket bumper.Sheet metal repair,frame work,painting are the only places you can really cut your time down,but you need experience to know how to do it with out sacrificing quality.
Jayson, it’s more about finding the right way and not everybody will have the same idea of the right way. Just like how not everybody will charge the same amount for the same exact job.
I mean heck it’s a recession, give me a break.These guys all gave good advice. Kinda singin’ the same melody as them, but to answer a few more specific questions an infrared heat lamp can speed up drying times on primer. Also applying primer correctly will help it dry faster. Touching on what someone else said I’m a firm believer of results in the booth. Do a good job painting and you wont even have to cut and buff panels. I know you said someone else paints so you really can’t fix that. From my experience one thing other shops dread is taking in someone who’s picked up “bad habits” from another shop, but it is hard to know what is right and what is wrong when there is no one there to tell you. But I can tell you filling pinholes with primer is wrong. lol. Think about explaining your situation to some managers at other shops and trying to get into a collision shop. Good luck, its good to hear someone who wants to take pride in their work and learn. That will probably bring you farther than anything else.
always “more speed less haste” 😉
What do you guys think about hand sanding vs DA sanding. I notice the old guy at work uses his DA WAAAY more than I use mine, and he also destroys me on repair times. How do you decide when/where its ok to use a DA? Like the OP I also nitpick when I do things and it probably doubles my repair time.
I did a repair on a 2012 Camaro late in the day on Friday. Had to remove the bumper (to replace it and the grills) and the repair was right at the front tip where the fender meets the bumper. I hammered it out to as close as I could get it because of the funky shape and location if the damage near the edge. Then I ground off the paint in the area and feathered it back a bit. Then spread my filler and knocked it down with 80 grit since it was pretty close to good (sometimes I hit it with 36 grit to speed it up). Then blocked the flat edge with a small block and by hand (on a taco block) on the curved part. I then decided to try Slick Sand for the primer to fill pinholes and give me a little more material to work with in case I wasnt dead on with the filler, then sprayed my guide. Thats where I left it. Is it a terrible thing to use Slick Sand in this situation? Also, I plan to start with 220 to knock down the Slick Sand, then step to 400, then 600. What im thinking is starting with the 220 on a hand block, then maybe once I go to 400, using the DA. Obviously I would need to run 800-1000 to complete the panel, and normally would just do it all by hand. Id like to get more friendly with my DA and for sure once im past 400 grit or so, let the DA do the work. Any advice in this situation?
Im not sure what slick sand is but I don’t like the sound of it. lol When and where to use a DA is going to be a judgment call you’ll have to make on each repair. I prefer doing my filler/putty/primer by hand, but I might slightly level filler or putty with a DA to start to save on sanding time. I like my first coat to be decent so I can cheese-grate it level, then block. sometimes another filler coat or sometimes I can jump right to putty. I also always do my primer blocked wet with 600. But each repair is different and it’s not always so black and white. Find what works for you and keeps time decent.
Slick sand is a sprayable polyester filler. Little over kill on a small dent at the front of a fender. But if thats what you need to make it look good then do it. However, I wouldnt use it as a final primer. Its basically the same as using a polyester filler for a skim coat. you wouldnt paint directly over that (would you?)…
Block it with 180 and prime it a urethane primer before proceeding with your prepAs ding says you need till prime over spray poly hit with 180-220 prime and u know the rest lol
Yeah ding really the reason I used it this time was because I had a few pinnys and it wasnt an absolutely perfect repair. That area is super flimsey, curved in all directions, and I didnt get it just right. So I figured rather than to skim it again with poly filler, then primer I would spray SS and get it leveled off perfect. Then come back with the 3055 surfacer. That stuff damn near sprays like base coat. So come in with 2 coats of that and knock it down with 600 wet. Come back with maybe 800-1000 on the DA and sand the rest of the panel. Or I suppose I could use a grey scotchbrite and some paste too. Either way.
By the way if it werent Friday night I would have just skimmed it with poly filler so i wouldnt have to wait for primer to dry twice. No baking at my shop.
Using a DA on stuff really depends on the user. Some people manage to do a lot with them and get straight work. If blocking by hand works better, there is nothing wrong with that. I use my DA to prep any flatter panels, feather paint edges etc. sometimes I will use it to start body work, but finish with a block. A lot of my prepping/sanding is with the DA.
Slick sand (or any polyester primer) is ok if you need it. But you should still be spraying 2k urethane primer over it after. Poly primers should be viewed more as a spray able finishing putty. I wouldn’t use poly primer on everyday collision stuff. Maybe real bad hail repairs or large panel repairs… Spraying the surfacer overtop is a good way to finish your repair. But in the future you may find it quicker to skim the body work with putty and knock it down. A good putty will be very quick and easy for this. My view for collision repair is that 3-4 medium coats if primer should be adequate to finish the repair…otherwise it’s not ready for primer.
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