looking for info on De Beers system
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I’m looking for someone who sprays De Beer waterborne, I would like to know how it is in a production environment for color match, color tools, etc.
I can’t seem to find any bad feedback on it, but also there isn’t a whole lot mentioned about it overall.
I am a jobber store looking at installing it. I have a demo system being installed next week to sample for a month or so with my customers to see how it performs but I’m curious how it ranks against PPG and Dupont waterborne systems. I basically have valspar and Sherwin Willams both willing to throw me all kinds of free paint to get started with their line but I don’t want to bring in something that my customers will hate.
From what I see the pricing on it is pretty fair, it seems a bit high on simple colors like white and black, but it makes up for that bigtime in the pearls and metallic formulas.
Anyone care to chime in with their feedback on this line?
I use it now and then along with their solvent range too. I like it and get along with it quite well.
Not sprayed gallons of it but the colours I have sprayed have been very good colour match and blendability (better than solvent I would say)
The man to ask would be Andy T on here as he sprayed this stuff for quite a few years I believe and his colour knowledge of the system is vast.
I just did a Reflex Silver Volkswagen Bora/Jetta in 900+ without blending (not by choice, customer wouldn’t pay for it) and its worked very well apart from on the leading edge of the rear arch to rear door, it’s a ways off but the front wings to front doors and bumpers to wings/rear quarters in excellent. I put it down to me perhaps not nailing the control coat in that little 2″ wide arch lip.
That was my 2nd use of DeBeer, first was a full hit, solid colour. Repair areas covered in 2 coats then I applied a 3rd while I based up the rest of the car.
As Jack says, I sprayed DeBeer for a couple of years in a production shop. I was averaging 60-70 cars a week, even managed up to 100 a few times so I’d say it works very well in that kind of environment.
The ICRIS computer system is one of the best I’ve ever used. I know of a tech rep who would use it as his first choice when looking up hard to find colours, despite having every other paint scheme and system at his disposal. It is also updated weekly via (very simple) internet download, so no messing about waiting for update discs and it’s always bang up to date with the latest colours. If the lab has it, you have it 🙂 The colour box was pretty comprehensive too and as I understand it the chips are all sprayed rather than being printed like some so what you saw on the chip was what you were going to get.
Colour matching on the whole was very good, but when they get it wrong they get it [i]really[/i] wrong!! 😆 However, considering the number of cars and different colours we got through I only remember about 5 occasions in a couple of years where we had to call the colour guy out to sort a problem. I can easily live with that kind of percentage!
The system does have a lot of coloured ground coats to help coverage. Initially I thought this would be a pain in the rear but once you get used to it it’s the opposite. There are a few that you use often so I’d have a bit of each mixed up at all times. One quick coat of the ground colour and your base would cover extremely well, saving time and money in the long run (less coats of an expensive pearl or xyrillic for example). They were slowly phasing these out though after introducing a range of 13 high-strength tinters which gave much improved covering power for some colours, especially silvers.
I’m sure that’ll give you enough to chew on for now, but I’m here if you have any more specific questions 🙂
Oh, and as for my overall opinion compared to other brands – if I were ever to open my own shop DeBeer would be my first choice.
Andy.
well, I hope its perceived here as well as with you guys.. I just made the deal today to change our store over to valspar thru and thru. I’m throwing out prospray, and eventually transtar if the solvent system is as good as i hope it is.
I’m excited to make the switch, I think its going to be a slam dunk.
I have demo mixes to play with in the meantime, but all my customers are anxious to make the jump.
I hope it works well for you.
I know I would prefer to use the waterbourne over solvent if we were set up a little better.
Andy are you spraying DB 2.1voc clear over there? if so how is it? does it pop easy in the hot humid weather?
I currently sell a lot of SPI, which my guys all love and I can’t keep it on the shelf. as well as UPOL clear. But if I’m going to switch all the shops to debeer, I should probably push the whole package deal.
Also since your in Europe, I wonder if we will experience the same color matching here on north American cars. I guess as long as they have the variants we should be ok regardless.
Is their variant chip box very complete? IE does it have a chip for each variant or just some. Prospray, which we currently sell, developed the navigator box which is all fine and dandy, except for the fact that it only has chips for one or two of the variants listed and the rest have nothing. a lot of the time there is a reference chip for the standard formula only, and all the variants are without a reference #… what a fantastic box…. :unsure:
Are you located in Canada?
yes…
Things are rated differently over here so I don’t even know what a 2.1voc clear is 😆 I’m guessing it’s an indication of a low voc rated product, a bit like our “420” rating. Basically clears need to have a voc content of 420 grammes/litre or less to be compliant. There are exceptions, but on the whole that’s how it goes.
I have used 2 such clears from DeBeer plus a non-compliant one, but again I’m sure they are packaged differently in other countries so it would be hard for me to compare exact products. I haven’t used a bad one though so there’s every chance the ones you get will be good too.
Chip box was quite comprehensive as I mention above. There were sprayed chips for all of the standard shades and main variants. The computer system does sometimes contain field variants though, for which there aren’t any chips. These were generally one-off formulations for a rogue car, done out in the field, so unlikely to pop up often. They do include an indication of how they differ from the standard shade though (i.e. lighter, bluer, etc) so can sometimes be worth a look if you’re struggling.
I think 420 is the metric equiv of 2.1 lbs/gall. i’m trying to confirm that though… I guess I will have to run out to the shop and read a can to verify it.
Clears are a major complaint that I have to deal with here all the time. A lot of time its the painter that is the root of the problem, but I still strive to find the best clears that can perform well in a variety of environments. dieback and pop are huge issues in the summer months.
Most of the time I find the painters are pounding the product on in rapid invervals trying to achieve flow, which leads to solvent trap and eventually pop. Or they are using their 20 yr old devilbiss gun that their grandfather swore by and refuse to upgrade to a more efficient and advanced gun.
As a store owner, the paint companies push us to sell the whole paint package, not just their color. The problem I have with this is some of the generics simply outperform the “good stuff”.
so I’m hoping that debeer has a nice product, because it would be refreshing to have a solid paint system from start to finish.
420g/lt is 3.5 VOC. The regs are different in europe. they have a 3.5 limit with no exempts. The low voc clears in North America and Canada have to be 2.1 or under which is 250 g/lt.
In NA and Canada Oxsol(Parachlorobenzotrifluoride) and Acetone are exempt where EU they are not.
Thanks Ryan. At least I understand the 2.1 bit now 🙂
Tbar – I never managed to get any of the DeBeer clears to pop, unlike one of the ICI/NEXA ones I used (maybe 6690?) which was prone for it.
We did some test jobs with the tech guy as we had to use a fish eye additive due to how our operation was set up (long story), so we played about quite a bit to make sure everything was compatible. Even doing an overload test on their speed clear (hammering on 3 wet coats with no flash in between, then straight into the bake oven at 80C for 20 min) there was no popping. Quite an impressive run, but no popping! :rofl
cool…. thank you!!!
I will have to ask valspar what the N-america numbers are on that product when you factor oxsol and acetone into the equation.
i’m gonna email him right now as a matter of fact!!! LOL
It really doesn’t matter. Oxsol and acetone are put in during manufacturing. If you’re in canada just use the clears approved for your area.
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