need help from envirobase/ aquabase users
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I just finished my training in California for envirobase even ththough I use the aquabase and they couldn’t give me a cure for a problem I’ve been having. So I figured maybe you guys that use it every day could throw out some ideas. My problem is that the clear coat is pinching on the sides of the car only and only where base has been applied. I’m able to tack every coat of base before the next coat. The 6100 is the clear I’m using. I’ve also tried the 6330 and the 643 with the same results. Thanks for any help.
sounds like you are clearing before the water is fully evaporated from the base
Do you have access to a mil gauge? I would be interested to know what kind of film weight/ mil build you are getting on side panels?
Do you notice any difference with slow or fast hardeners or reducers?
What gun and tip size do you spray with?
Have you tried a third coat on a side panel to see if it helped?
[quote=”ding” post=31855]sounds like you are clearing before the water is fully evaporated from the base[/quote]
I tend to agree. One of the most accurate ways to ensure all the water is out before clear is to use a temperature gun (the laser pointer things). Check the panel in the booth before applying paint. That temp is your reference point. Apply each coat of base ensuring that the entire panel comes back to that initial temp before applying your next coat. After your last cost let it flash the 15 minutes ( or whatever time you are use to). Check the panel again all over, if it is back to the initial temp you are good to clear. You can use blowers or whatever you do to help the base flash.
You will be surprised at how much the base coat drops the panel temp when you apply it.
Your either putting it on too fast or too wet. One way to tell is when u tag it, if u have wipe marks in it from the tac rag it’s too wet. & make sure u don’t put the control coat on to wet either.
What u could do or try…
1—I use enviro so I’m not sure if the #’s r the same. T492 it hel[quote=”metalhead” post=31850]I just finished my training in California for envirobase even ththough I use the aquabase and they couldn’t give me a cure for a problem I’ve been having. So I figured maybe you guys that use it every day could throw out some ideas. My problem is that the clear coat is pinching on the sides of the car only and only where base has been applied. I’m able to tack every coat of base before the next coat. The 6100 is the clear I’m using. I’ve also tried the 6330 and the 643 with the same results. Thanks for any help.[/quote]
I use Aquabase/Enviro.Without knowing your exact situation here are a few suggestions that might help. Pinching on the side— there is little air flow on the sides and maybe you applied more than 2-3 coats of base so the water hasn’t completely evaporated out and the latex in the paint is staying soft. Clear is skimming surface. Check on booth air flow, change clear—P190-6759—P190-6790 higher volume solid clear. For speed P190-6800 small repairs 2-3 panels. I wouldn’t use 6100 clear too fast, skimming, i know PPG has had issues of pinching on solvent base with this clear. P190-6100 and P190-643 not VOC compliant in Canada, but P190- 643 is a high solid clear. So Im thinking air flow/temperature on the sides with too much base coat” maybe”?? clear is being drawn into the base causing the clear to pinch. Usually see this a lot with generic clears- 5star, Transtar, preform has to do with the thinness of clear sinking.So check the volume solids of clear the higher the solid content the less pinching, die back, more shine, better polishing. I know 6100 is 38% volume solids and I think 6330 is the same. 643 was around 40%
Thanks for all the help guys. I accually tried the temp gun on one a while back after noticing how cool the base was to the touch if you didnt flash it good.Didnt seem to make a difference. So today I tried putting lighter coats of base which isnt the way i was first instructed, and It seems to be working so far. It was usually worse with solid colors and three stages and it seemed like no mater how long it flashed they stayed a little tacky. I just finished a solid red one before I left so we’ll see how it looks in the morning. It didnt have that tackyness to it when I tacked it off this time.
OH… IM using sata 3000 & 4000 hvlp 1.3 for base and supernova 1.4 for clear. Ill put a mill guage on it tomarrow.
Well the red one came out ok. I just got a little pinch on that one. The one I did Friday though came out horrible. I ended up sanding and reclearing it. On this one the color was transparent so it took me five coats plus the orientation coat. I put the blower on it between every coat for about five minutes then double coated the clear as they suggested in the class. Ended up with 2.2 mils of clear. Gonna try a different clear on the next few. The only other clears they have here are the 6659 and 6800.
How long are you guys letting each coat of base flash?Rather than doing it as the one visit application for the clear have you tried spraying the clear as two medium wet coats with a few minutes flash inbetween? That may help a bit too, if you haven’t tried it yet.
I personally like a 1.2 in a devilbiss tekna, works awesome for me, I use the Low VOC version of 6659 (6759) its a good clear with a higher Volume solid content, 6800 is the speed clear in the line up, great for 1-2 panels. I dont bother the one visit thing i like to give the clear a 10 min flash but im spraying in a crappy booth. Im thinking your applying it to wet, 2 light coats and a drop and for 90% of colors and you are good to go.
Are you using the correct SGO sealers under your base to help with hiding?
Ive always done two coats with about five minutes of flash between even when spraying solvent base with the same clear with no problems. Just tried a double coat because it was suggested at the training center.
Seems to take 3+ drop coat on most colors for me to get full coverage when checking with the sun gun. I always try to use the correct shade of sealer but this one was a two tone and I didn’t Want to re-seal it for the darker top color. It does seem that more coats of base= more pinch. My three stage jobs usually look like ass on the sides.
Also thought is ad the weather here has been mid to upper 70s with humidity usually below 20% which I’m sure is lower in the booth since I keep the booth around 85.
Here’s what i did to help out after haveing a hard time as well with the enviro. If the base isnt dry enough it will pinch. & u need to use some kind of blower to help dry it, unless its like 90-100 in the booth it still needs a lil help. Especially with the side just leting it air dry won’t help.
If your using a sata, they may have told u to set it @25psi, bump it to 29psi. World of difference.
Make sure u r using the correct sealer for the wb, ppg has one for their solvent base, das, and es-xx line for the wb. And make sure u give enough flash time before u jump on it with the base. The reason i say this is cause it will soak in & take forever to cover & dry, the botton sides r usually my wosre area.Certian colors just suck ass on covering as well as drying.
U can reduce to 30% may take a few extra coats, but dries really fast, and u can do this on any color. If u like. I have done this in the summer & when the humity was high works really well.
I usually reduce between 20-30% i find it seems to be the sweet spot.
On tris, reduce the ground coat a lil over 20 this way the white dries faster, still need to wait 10-15 mins before doing the mid coat. This also applies to some some red mets., & red tri coats.
I also found that my white prls were comeing out to white, & figured that one coat ofwhite sealer wasnt cutting it, as it was transperant too. So i will put on a lite coat wait 5 mins, then a full med. wet coat after that, that helped a whole lot.I also use some t492 for those colors i know that take a while to dry. It helps.
Some times, u can hit the bake button for a few mins to help along after the last coat.
Wait the normal 10-15 mins before clearing. You should be able slide your hand with a latex glove on across the panel with no problem, if it drags a lil, its not dry enough.
I also use dc2000 clear with it alot, its a wet on wet clear, air dry. I do have to use dt885 or 95 depending on the amount of pannels, works great since its an air dry clear. U can always use a slower hardner with your one visit clears, it may take a lil longer, but compare that to either buffing or redoing it, & you’ll see that its worth the wait.
Your gonna have to play with it, for the time being you’ll just have to put the “its faster then our solvent” thing out of your mind. The speed will come nce u figure out what works on what days.
Lild:
I think you might be on to something with the air pressure lild. I barrowed my helpers digital 4000 today and noticed that 29psi on his gun sounded like 40 psi on my non digital. So I checked my guages to both of his digitals and found my gauges were reading 10psi higher. So when I thought I was spraying at 29 it was actually only 20, and my orientation coat was 10-12. After spraying a couple of cars with his gun they were flashing and covering so much faster, and laying down so smooth. I really cant believe that was it.
The 6659 clear really work well too. Its a lot easier to lay down than the 6100. Hopefully today wasn’t just a fluke cause I’m tired of losing sleep over this.Thanks again to all of you. Ill give an update in the next week or two. :cheers
So, after a week of spraying with higher pressure my work has looked better than ever. Not really sure if the pressure on the digital data’s is accurate because 29psi sounds like its much higher but, it is working.
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