Newbie gun(s) suggestions?
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Hey guys
I’m new here but not new to painting in general. I did some rust repair on my car this year and it turned out pretty decent but I would like to step it up a notch and get some gun action going. I have never painted with a gun before but I’m looking at getting into it (have to start somewhere, right?).
I was just wondering what guns you guys would recommend for a newbie?
Some of my questions:
[list]
[*]Should I be buying a gun that is ready for waterborne paints or not at this point? I guess this all depends if I’m going to be spraying waterborne paints or not and I honestly have no idea. I don’t even know what my local places give for paint?
[*]Should I look at getting 2 semi-decent guns? 1 for base coat and 1 for clear coat? I have another cheap gun that I can use for primer. Or should I look at getting one pretty good gun and use it for both base AND clear?
[*]I saw [url=http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-DEVILBISS-HVLP-SPRAY-PAINT-GUN-KIT-2-Guns-Regulator-/390348149253?pt=Motors_Automotive_Tools&vxp=mtr&hash=item5ae2901205]this kit[/url], but I’m not sure what to think of it…does Sata, Iwata also sell kits like this with 2 guns?
[/list]I’ll think of more questions but right now I can’t think of anymore!
Thanks guys!
ElliottThere are probably 2 more important factors to consider first. The first one is your air supply. Will you have enough CFM to properly supply a gun. Secondly, what product(s) are you spraying. Each product may require a different setup on a gun (different air caps and different size of fluid tip/nozzle).
As far as waterborne goes, most guns are ok. The only thing that makes a gun good for waterborne is the gun being made of materials that will not corrode, or have coatings on it to prevent corrosion.
[quote=”Ben” post=23073]There are probably 2 more important factors to consider first. The first one is your air supply. Will you have enough CFM to properly supply a gun. Secondly, what product(s) are you spraying. Each product may require a different setup on a gun (different air caps and different size of fluid tip/nozzle).
As far as waterborne goes, most guns are ok. The only thing that makes a gun good for waterborne is the gun being made of materials that will not corrode, or have coatings on it to prevent corrosion.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure my compressor is big enough and up to the job. It’s a pretty big one.
As for product…I have no idea. I don’t even know what the guy gives me when I go to buy paint? When I buy paint for lets say a 2002 VW Passat, he mixes the paint up right there for me, right? If so, does it come in a PPG can or something? I mean, basically, I’m confused because I see people spraying PPG (and others) paint, but what happens if you need a color match? I know my question is really confusing but when you go to your local paint shop what do they give you?
I know my friend has a Iwata 400 all stainless steel ready for waterborne paints…but I have no idea if I’ll ever be using those? And I think that that gun is way out of my price range…
[quote=”ElliottG” post=23074][quote=”Ben” post=23073]There are probably 2 more important factors to consider first. The first one is your air supply. Will you have enough CFM to properly supply a gun. Secondly, what product(s) are you spraying. Each product may require a different setup on a gun (different air caps and different size of fluid tip/nozzle).
As far as waterborne goes, most guns are ok. The only thing that makes a gun good for waterborne is the gun being made of materials that will not corrode, or have coatings on it to prevent corrosion.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure my compressor is big enough and up to the job. It’s a pretty big one.
As for product…I have no idea. I don’t even know what the guy gives me when I go to buy paint? When I buy paint for lets say a 2002 VW Passat, he mixes the paint up right there for me, right? If so, does it come in a PPG can or something? I mean, basically, I’m confused because I see people spraying PPG (and others) paint, but what happens if you need a color match? I know my question is really confusing but when you go to your local paint shop what do they give you?
I know my friend has a Iwata 400 all stainless steel ready for waterborne paints…but I have no idea if I’ll ever be using those? And I think that that gun is way out of my price range…[/quote]
It should say on the label of the can what it is, or else ask them. PPG has several base coats, you are probably getting the Deltron or Deltron 2000.
You can get decent results spraying both base and clear with the same gun with some products. However, the best thing to do is get one specific gun setup for each, but by that point you are probably spending $1000+ on the 2 guns.
For what you are doing at home, you would probably be good with something like the Devilbiss Tekna, or the older GTi.
Exactly how big is your compressor? You need a lot of CFM, most 60 gallon compressors are not quite up to snuff to do the job really well.
When i go to the paint store they give me what i ask for. If you dont know what you are getting…ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can you use a product when you dont know what it is :wak[quote=”Ben” post=23076][quote=”ElliottG” post=23074][quote=”Ben” post=23073]There are probably 2 more important factors to consider first. The first one is your air supply. Will you have enough CFM to properly supply a gun. Secondly, what product(s) are you spraying. Each product may require a different setup on a gun (different air caps and different size of fluid tip/nozzle).
As far as waterborne goes, most guns are ok. The only thing that makes a gun good for waterborne is the gun being made of materials that will not corrode, or have coatings on it to prevent corrosion.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure my compressor is big enough and up to the job. It’s a pretty big one.
As for product…I have no idea. I don’t even know what the guy gives me when I go to buy paint? When I buy paint for lets say a 2002 VW Passat, he mixes the paint up right there for me, right? If so, does it come in a PPG can or something? I mean, basically, I’m confused because I see people spraying PPG (and others) paint, but what happens if you need a color match? I know my question is really confusing but when you go to your local paint shop what do they give you?
I know my friend has a Iwata 400 all stainless steel ready for waterborne paints…but I have no idea if I’ll ever be using those? And I think that that gun is way out of my price range…[/quote]
It should say on the label of the can what it is, or else ask them. PPG has several base coats, you are probably getting the Deltron or Deltron 2000.
You can get decent results spraying both base and clear with the same gun with some products. However, the best thing to do is get one specific gun setup for each, but by that point you are probably spending $1000+ on the 2 guns.
For what you are doing at home, you would probably be good with something like the Devilbiss Tekna, or the older GTi.
Exactly how big is your compressor? You need a lot of CFM, most 60 gallon compressors are not quite up to snuff to do the job really well.[/quote]
Alright. But why would it even say PPG on it if the guy at my local paint store mixes it himself to the right specs? Because they’re using PPG ingredients in the paint or something?
Right. So do you see anything wrong with the two gun kit that I posted other than being really cheap? I’m guessing the quality is not really there either…but I’m not looking at spending even $500 on guns at this time either…I’m really looking for either:
[ul]
[li]A decent gun that I can use for BOTH base and clear[/li] OR
[li]Two semi-decent guns that I can use for base/clear seperately[/li]
[/ul]Any kits that you would recommend? Or you’re saying I should look at getting a Devilbiss Tekna, or the older GTi and just spray both base and clear in the same gun? I mean are there any guns cheaper than those? I’m not really looking at a super high quality gun especially for my first time painting…I can always upgrade later I guess.
As for my compressor size, I’m not entirely sure because it’s my dads compressor and I’m not in the shop ATM but it’s at least 80 gallons.
[quote=”ding” post=23078]When i go to the paint store they give me what i ask for. If you dont know what you are getting…ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can you use a product when you dont know what it is :wak[/quote]Well I haven’t really gotten to the step of buying paint yet so I don’t know what I will get!
Do they even sell paints that are non-waterborne anymore? If so, when do you think they will be phased out altogether? I just don’t want to buy a gun and then not be able to use it when everyone switches to waterborne paints.
[quote=”ElliottG” post=23080][quote=”Ben” post=23076][quote=”ElliottG” post=23074][quote=”Ben” post=23073]There are probably 2 more important factors to consider first. The first one is your air supply. Will you have enough CFM to properly supply a gun. Secondly, what product(s) are you spraying. Each product may require a different setup on a gun (different air caps and different size of fluid tip/nozzle).
As far as waterborne goes, most guns are ok. The only thing that makes a gun good for waterborne is the gun being made of materials that will not corrode, or have coatings on it to prevent corrosion.[/quote]
I’m pretty sure my compressor is big enough and up to the job. It’s a pretty big one.
As for product…I have no idea. I don’t even know what the guy gives me when I go to buy paint? When I buy paint for lets say a 2002 VW Passat, he mixes the paint up right there for me, right? If so, does it come in a PPG can or something? I mean, basically, I’m confused because I see people spraying PPG (and others) paint, but what happens if you need a color match? I know my question is really confusing but when you go to your local paint shop what do they give you?
I know my friend has a Iwata 400 all stainless steel ready for waterborne paints…but I have no idea if I’ll ever be using those? And I think that that gun is way out of my price range…[/quote]
It should say on the label of the can what it is, or else ask them. PPG has several base coats, you are probably getting the Deltron or Deltron 2000.
You can get decent results spraying both base and clear with the same gun with some products. However, the best thing to do is get one specific gun setup for each, but by that point you are probably spending $1000+ on the 2 guns.
For what you are doing at home, you would probably be good with something like the Devilbiss Tekna, or the older GTi.
Exactly how big is your compressor? You need a lot of CFM, most 60 gallon compressors are not quite up to snuff to do the job really well.[/quote]
Alright. But why would it even say PPG on it if the guy at my local paint store mixes it himself to the right specs? Because they’re using PPG ingredients in the paint or something?
Right. So do you see anything wrong with the two gun kit that I posted other than being really cheap? I’m guessing the quality is not really there either…but I’m not looking at spending even $500 on guns at this time either…I’m really looking for either:
[ul]
[li]A decent gun that I can use for BOTH base and clear[/li] OR
[li]Two semi-decent guns that I can use for base/clear seperately[/li]
[/ul]Any kits that you would recommend? Or you’re saying I should look at getting a Devilbiss Tekna, or the older GTi and just spray both base and clear in the same gun? I mean are there any guns cheaper than those? I’m not really looking at a super high quality gun especially for my first time painting…I can always upgrade later I guess.
[quote=”ding” post=23078]When i go to the paint store they give me what i ask for. If you dont know what you are getting…ASK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How can you use a product when you dont know what it is :wak[/quote]Well I haven’t really gotten to the step of buying paint yet so I don’t know what I will get yet![/quote]
You’ll probably get better results spraying both products with 1 quality gun than 2 mediocre guns. Check ebay, you can often find good used higher-end guns at a decent price. I wouldn’t waste my money on the kit, it won’t do what you want and you won’t get your money back if you try to sell them later.
As far as paint, the auto body supplier will have a mixing bank they use to mix the product. They may have more than 1 product line, but generally they will only be supplying from one manufacturer (like PPG). You need the tech sheet for the product to see how to use it (mixing, application and drying info as well as info on what products are compatible with it)
[quote=”Ben” post=23081]You’ll probably get better results spraying both products with 1 quality gun than 2 mediocre guns. Check ebay, you can often find good used higher-end guns at a decent price. I wouldn’t waste my money on the kit, it won’t do what you want and you won’t get your money back if you try to sell them later.
As far as paint, the auto body supplier will have a mixing bank they use to mix the product. They may have more than 1 product line, but generally they will only be supplying from one manufacturer (like PPG). You need the tech sheet for the product to see how to use it (mixing, application and drying info as well as info on what products are compatible with it)[/quote]
Alright thanks. What should I be looking for when looking @ buying a used gun?
Also just reposting my previous question: do they even sell paints that are non-waterborne anymore? If so, when do you think they will be phased out altogether? Should I be looking at a waterborne-ready gun or not even bother? I guess I should check to see if the paint my supplier uses is waterborne or not, although I’m guessing that with all the old-school painters he must carry both.
Anyone else have any recommendations for guns I could look at buying on the lower price scale?
Well, I wouldn’t go too cheap. Like I said most all guns can spray waterborne. With most Devilbiss guns the only difference is the cup, not the gun. The plastic cup will be fine for everything (water or solvent), the metal cup is only for solvent.
If looking at a used gun, get photos of inside the body, it should be clean. The gun should be complete and look clean and newish. An old gun that is well taken care of will still look relatively clean and new.
I don’t know where you are or what your environmental regulations are. But the idea is the products only have to be VOC compliant. Waterborne basecoats are only one way, low VOC solvent basecoats are another. There are low VOC solvent basecoats avaliable from many paint manufacturers. When will VOC limits be implemented in your area? I don’t know. I am in Canada and VOC limits changed not too long ago. Almost all shops up here are using waterborne, but there are a few using low VOC solvents.
[quote=”Ben” post=23083]Well, I wouldn’t go too cheap. Like I said most all guns can spray waterborne. With most Devilbiss guns the only difference is the cup, not the gun. The plastic cup will be fine for everything (water or solvent), the metal cup is only for solvent.
If looking at a used gun, get photos of inside the body, it should be clean. The gun should be complete and look clean and newish. An old gun that is well taken care of will still look relatively clean and new.
I don’t know where you are or what your environmental regulations are. But the idea is the products only have to be VOC compliant. Waterborne basecoats are only one way, low VOC solvent basecoats are another. There are low VOC solvent basecoats avaliable from many paint manufacturers. When will VOC limits be implemented in your area? I don’t know. I am in Canada and VOC limits changed not too long ago. Almost all shops up here are using waterborne, but there are a few using low VOC solvents.[/quote]
Thanks. So all Devilbiss guns are stainless steel inside? What about the others like Sata and Iwata? I’m not really locked on any brand just wondering what you guys would recommend as a good starting gun. What’s wrong with the StartingLine kit from DevilBiss? Just lower quality or what’s the difference exactly? StartingLine, FinishLine, GTi, Tekna info?
Also, what tips shuld I be looking at getting for a gun? I think 1.4 is for clear? What about base? I guess depending on whether it’s a metallic base or not…but in general which tip sizes should I be looking at getting?
I live in Quebec but I have no idea about the regulations. I know a lot of hot rod guys and they’re the ones helping me with the paint and I’m pretty positive they’re not using waterborne paints because they’re the old school type (you know what I mean).
If you live in Quebec or any where else in Canada, the law is passed on lower voc compliance. which means that all the major body shops are using waterborne paint due to the fact that its the only paint out there now that will match decent. You can get the lower voc solvent still but more than likely shops aren’t using it because it doesnt match, its still probably being used by back yarders or shops doing completes.
If you are looking to buy a good gun to get started i would suggest buying a devilbiss tekna. It is the best all around gun i own and you will not be disappointed.
In regards to the tip size, it depends on the products. The clear I am using now works best with a 1.4 in my gun. The clear I was using previously was best with a 1.3 or 1.2. But in a different gun, it may work better with another size altogether. You should get an idea of what you are spraying first.
The difference in the starting line vs. something like the Tekna or SATA would be very noticable in feel, the way it sprays and ultimately the finish. The starting line with atomize the paint differently which will make it lay down differently.
For the sake of only a few hundred dollars more, there is no point to buying a cheap gun. If that few hundred dollars makes that big of a difference to you then painting cars may not be for you.
[quote=”smooth” post=23088]If you live in Quebec or any where else in Canada, the law is passed on lower voc compliance. which means that all the major body shops are using waterborne paint due to the fact that its the only paint out there now that will match decent. You can get the lower voc solvent still but more than likely shops aren’t using it because it doesnt match, its still probably being used by back yarders or shops doing completes.
If you are looking to buy a good gun to get started i would suggest buying a devilbiss tekna. It is the best all around gun i own and you will not be disappointed.[/quote]
I see. So do you think that if I go to buy paint at my local store they would be selling me waterborne paints then? If so, would I need to buy some of those air dryers to help cure the paint? I was reading somewhere (here I think in an article), and it said that the paint would almost never cure without them.
I like the Tekna but I’m not really looking at spending $400 on a gun really…for my first time shooting paint especially.
[quote=”Ben” post=23090]In regards to the tip size, it depends on the products. The clear I am using now works best with a 1.4 in my gun. The clear I was using previously was best with a 1.3 or 1.2. But in a different gun, it may work better with another size altogether. You should get an idea of what you are spraying first.
The difference in the starting line vs. something like the Tekna or SATA would be very noticable in feel, the way it sprays and ultimately the finish. The starting line with atomize the paint differently which will make it lay down differently.
For the sake of only a few hundred dollars more, there is no point to buying a cheap gun. If that few hundred dollars makes that big of a difference to you then painting cars may not be for you.[/quote]
I see. I wouldn’t be using the gun very often (quite rarely) in fact…so I’m not sure the work I would be doing (a fender here and there…reclearing my car maybe) would warrant buying an expensive gun…
Are there any other decent guns in the $200 range? The GTi I see is more in that price range. But I read [url=http://www.autobodyreviews.com/2011/06/devilbiss-gti-review/]here[/url] this:
[quote]Cleaning this gun is somewhat of a choir and they incorperate a spacer (baffle) that I have had to replace a few times from wear and tear for about $40 each time. When the baffle goes it doesn’t spray quite right and it is quite frustrating to find that out in the middle of a spray job. With regular cleaning and maintenance I’ve had nothing else go wrong with the gun in the last 8 years having them so with that in mind I guess there is worse things in life.[/quote]
What do you think about that?
I mean if I saw a used Tekna for those kinds of prices I would buy it but it doesn’t seem like anyone is willing to part with theirs at this time lol. :cheer:
Also, looking at guns, how do I tell if they’re waterborne ready or not? Looking at one of the Tekna’s on eBay and it says “Waterborne versions available”. Are the GTi’s waterborne? I know Ben you said that most guns are OK but what does that mean? Wouldn’t they start to corrode inside if they weren’t all stainless steel?
[b][color=#FF0000]What is the difference between the Devilbiss GTi and the Plus? I think the Plus is the gun with the better cap or something like that? But I also read that the Plus is not an HVLP gun? Is the GTi an HVLP gun? Isn’t that pretty important to have?[/color][/b]
First of all you need to make up your mind what you doing. If you are only painting one job you can probably get away with using a cheap gun,but if this is something that you are interested in than $400 is a small investment. What would be the point of buying a cheapo gun then only to realize that you should have spent the extra cash and got a decent gun the first time around.
As for the type of paint selection, I dont know what type of paint your jobber sells, the only way to find out is call and ask. I doubt its gonna be waterborne because as far as i know they are not allowed to sell the stuff to the general public.I dont know exactly what you are painting but My suggestion is buy the VOC compliant solvent base/clear or urathane enamel(thats a single stage paint). And if you want to paint something that you want to match, take it to and professional bodyshop.
The GTi will be fine, much better than the starting line guns. The GTi is not that hard to clean. Don’t worry about the baffle, you are not spraying non-stop everyday, it will last for a very long time. Any gun will spray like crap when the parts are worn out, the GTi is no exception. As far as corrosion goes, many guns are made of aluminum so the inners (and sometimes the outside) has a coating on it or is anodized. The needles, nozzle and aircap are often made of stainless steel. The GTi is an aluminum body, the needle, nozzle and aircap are stainless. I believe the internals of the body have a coating on them so should you put water through there, you will probably be fine. Just don’t use the aluminum cup (which isn’t coated)
As I have mentioned before, find out exactly what product you are using FIRST.
The GTi and Plus are similar guns, the GTi is an HVLP, the Plus is complaint (generally sprays with a slightly higher pressure but slightly lower volume of air). The Plus is not the best gun for basecoat. Of the 2, I would suggest the GTi for you.
You obviously do not want to spend much on a gun, the GTi was a great professional gun several years ago, its just that since then, there have been many newer guns that are better, like the Tekna. The outdated GTi is still far superior to the cheap starting line gun that never was, and never will be a professional tool.
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