Painting a blue bonnet/bumper silver .
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Yeh I’m on diamont, the silver can be a pain. I don’t know if they teach you or a rep shows you but I’ve got a tiny which I call a base fix which is 100g of bc020 thinners and bc100 which is a binder. I lay a coat over the panel which I’m fading my colour be fore base and it help the new base blend into the old. I don’t know if any other rm painters use it
I checked your Sata RP… too small tip for me, but a sweet clean gun. I have on hand, a clear binder from Dupont Chromabase called 150 or 155.. I have used it that way too, I will use a slower than usual reducer in my base if i’m blending adjacent panel. Last week I got the insurance to extend the blend to the front door, and I painted the fender free so I did not even have to blend on the silver, and paint the whole side.
Bill if you list the #of your sealer we can find out the info in the tds sheet or maybe you can check yourself.It is usually safe to wait about 15-30 mins for sealer to flash.
You really have to be careful basing over etch,a better option is to use epoxy as a sealer or a quick coat of etch followed by a 2k urethane sealer,then base as normal.If you follow proper flash you will not have any trouble.[quote=”billgaino” post=28070]I checked your Sata RP… too small tip for me, but a sweet clean gun. I have on hand, a clear binder from Dupont Chromabase called 150 or 155.. I have used it that way too, I will use a slower than usual reducer in my base if i’m blending adjacent panel. Last week I got the insurance to extend the blend to the front door, and I painted the fender free so I did not even have to blend on the silver, and paint the whole side.[/quote]
Thanks that Sata has now been sold. As I’ve just got a pro lite with s te10 set up which is better for what I need. Ha ha I take more time then any one to clean, strip, service my guns 🙂 there in a warm and safe locked box. 🙂 if you look after your guns your guns will look after you ha ha amen lol
A good product for Bill would be the DuPont 2500 series epoxy primer sealer. It goes over just about anything from fiberglass to bare metal, base can be applied wet on wet after 20 minutes (with 1 coat of sealer). It can be denibbed (although not quite as nicely as urethane), lays down very smooth, it can be mixed in different value shades etc…
It may not be the cheapest product out there, but it offers excellent protection and goes a long way.
[url=http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/dr/ChromaSystem/H-19356_25X0S.pdf]here is the tech sheet[/url]
Thanks Ben ..That tech sheet reads a lot like this Matrix. I’m assumi
ng the Matrix product is Urethane.. It dosent’ really say. http://www.matrixsystem.com/docs/tech/MP-120_Series_Tech_Sheet.pdf
thats is a urethane sealer, Bill. The tech sheet there does recommend etching metal before applying.
The nice thing with the DuPont epoxy I mentioned, is that you can replace two products with it…your etch and your sealer. Then it is just one step as well.
Well I got a gallon and a half of a generic epoxy primer in stock, it is not a sealer/primer… just primer. I have plenty of etch primer too. Good for Direct To Metal. Yesterday I bought the dark shade of the Accushade MP 127. Now I can mix the 2 Matrix products to get the shade I need to apply under my base. I’ll need to use up some of these products before I go shopping again. I like Dupount products. I’ll get pricing. I thank you guys for setting me straight with the sealing procedure. As soon as I get my next job in I’ll post the results. With my new grounded air hose, warm make-up ducting, and sealing procedure, maybe I have found the “next level”
You really should take a class from your paint manufacturer. I know it’s a few days away but they go over the whole paint system. do’s and dont’s. proper procedures. It would be an invaluable experience for you.
[quote=”billgaino” post=28057] I found out the hard way if you paint over the Nason etch primer too soon it stains the topcoats with bleed through :x[/quote]
This doesn’t really have anything to do with flash time. It will bleed through no matter how long you wait. Etch is a 1K product and is always reversable. The solvents in basecoat can soften it. You risk staining or a delam issue.
The goal of sealer is not to paint over bad paint. If it has crows feet, no amount of sealer or primer will fix it. You don’t build a house on top of quicksand, your paintjob is only as good as what is under it.
Here is a procedure I have used since 2005. Over bare polished 180 metal, I spay 1 coat of etch primer, it is activated with phosphuric acid. After it dries well, I paint 2-3 coats of either enamal or single stage urethane. I use it here under a hood and again in the truck bed. The hood is mine and looks great today. The truck still looks good too. I admit it is not the most perfect finish but it is super easy and works in these applications. You may have to logged in to see pics. http://pantera.infopop.cc/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3350045562/m/1170013983?r=1170013983#1170013983
[quote=”ryan999″ post=28116][quote=”billgaino” post=28057] I found out the hard way if you paint over the Nason etch primer too soon it stains the topcoats with bleed through :x[/quote]
This doesn’t really have anything to do with flash time. It will bleed through no matter how long you wait. Etch is a 1K product and is always reversable. The solvents in basecoat can soften it. You risk staining or a delam issue.
The goal of sealer is not to paint over bad paint. If it has crows feet, no amount of sealer or primer will fix it. You don’t build a house on top of quicksand, your paintjob is only as good as what is under it.[/quote]
Exactly. Sealer is designed to prevent problems from occurring, not fix/hide existing issues.
A good 2k Sealer can:
-ensure adequate adhesion
-prevent stone chips
-allow easier coverage of topcoat colours
-prevent staining/bleed through
-bridge small burn through to bare metal (or DTM it some products)
-fill minor sand scratches/surface imperfections (such as 400 grit scratches etc)
-assist (your etch/epoxy) in corrosion protection
-ensure proper mil build on new parts
-prevent reaction between substrate and topcoat
among other things…If that is working for you Bill you have been pretty lucky.I will say again you would be better off using an epoxy primer for a DTM situation like in your pictures.Try a little experiment with your etch primer,spray some on a test panel and let it sit for a few days.Now take some lacquer thinner and wipe the etch primer and you will find it will all come off.Etch primer is based on lacquer technology and will reflow/rewet when you hit it with solvent from base.Phosphoric acid will not make it harden it just bites into the steel.
A properly mixed urethane sealer or epoxy primer once cured will not be removed with lacquer thinner,very durable when cured and cross linked with your base and clear or single stage urethane.
I agree with the others about taking a paint course from the manufaturer that you are using in your shop,and Ryan is spot in in his explanation.[quote=”Jayson M” post=28119]If that is working for you Bill you have been pretty lucky.I will say again you would be better off using an epoxy primer for a DTM situation like in your pictures.Try a little experiment with your etch primer,spray some on a test panel and let it sit for a few days.Now take some lacquer thinner and wipe the etch primer and you will find it will all come off.Etch primer is based on lacquer technology and will reflow/rewet when you hit it with solvent from base.Phosphoric acid will not make it harden it just bites into the steel.
A properly mixed urethane sealer or epoxy primer once cured will not be removed with lacquer thinner,very durable when cured and cross linked with your base and clear or single stage urethane.
I agree with the others about taking a paint course from the manufaturer that you are using in your shop,and Ryan is spot in in his explanation.[/quote]
X2 just cuz you got away with once doesnt make it the best way ta do it there are some etches that say ya can top coat but just cuz they say ya can doesnt mean ya should i learned that the hard way almost 20 yrs ago :blush: if ya etch u should always seal even a 1k enamel sealer is better than topcoating the etch directly but 2k sealer is the way ta go in my book anymore…bondo 😉This is not a dig at you at all but just because you do something 100 times and didn’t see it fail doesn’t mean it won’t or hasn’t. Take a look at a few TDS sheets. There are 2 single stages and one etch. I can post more but they all state the same thing. The single stages say nothing about going over an etch in suitable substrates, nor does the etch say it is ok to topcoat with single stage or base.
[url=http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/dr/ChromaSystem/K-15966_ChromaOneSS.pdf]here[/url]
[url=http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/dr/ChromaSystem/H-19311_ChromaPremSS.pdf]here[/url]
[url=http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/common/pdfs/b/product/nsn/Nason/491-17.pdf]and here[/url]
Another problem lies in painting over a very hard surface such as metal with no cushion in between the color and metal. If the only cushion between base or SS is a very thin coat of etch the car will be very prone to rock chipping.
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