Payrate/Scale
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I’m not sure how many people will be comfortable talking about this in the open, but I’m gonna ask anyway. What kind of money, does everyone whos willing to talk about it, make refinishing? What kind of wages are normal in your area for a painter (A tech) or a preper? Are you flat rate, hourly, or hourly with production bonuses? I have lived in PA for about 3 years now and the average wage is less up here then it was in my hometown (St. Louis). In St. Louis a good preper was usually hourly and made about 15-18 an hour. A good painter made about 20-24 an hour, and was almost ALWAYS on flat rate. In PA a good painter is lucky to make 20 an hour in a flat rate shop, about 18 is the average. A lot of shops up here are hourly, which is weird to me, but most have some sort of production bonus at the end of the month. The wages are a little higher at the hourly shops. but only by a couple dollars. I feel like this profession, in general, is not compensated as well as it should be. It takes a ton of skill and technical ability, and it hazardous to your health. I am very frustrated with my income at the moment. The shop I work as does mostly high end cars and is really focused on quality, which I like. I can’t stand to use cheap materials and not have available what you need to do the job right. (I like to buff as little as possible, if at all) I feel like I’m getting ripped off when it comes to money though. I was hired as a preper, the owner was the “lead” painter. I have been there a year and a half and only make 16 an hour, and am paid hourly. I do about 75% of the spraying, and almost all the preping/cutting-in. I was hired as the preper because it’s a pretty small shop and they only need 2 people for the paint department. Once my boss found out I was a fully capable painter he has stepped back as much as possible, and hardly does anything. We do about 90-100k a month at this shop, and besides my boss stepping in to help when I get backed up I do everything in the paint department. I average about 140-160% efficiency, and I get no sort of production bonus, I get paid strictly hourly. So, at the end of the week I bring home a check for 40 hours, at 16 bucks an hour. Am I being greedy, or am I way underpaid? I know this is a bit of a rant but it really bothers me. I really am a productive, and GOOD painter, I feel like I’m being taken advantage of. Do you see this happen a lot, or are most of you compensated much better then me? I’v grown confortable at this shop, but I feel like I need to start looking for a new job. Any input would be appreciated, maybe seeing some other peoples numbers way above mine will give me the push I need to start looking.
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Seems like you are being underpaid. In Melbourne Australia, I pay my guys $35 an hour. They’re very efficient, high end painters with over 20 years each on the tools. Average painters get $20-25 an hour.
If you’ve become entrenched at your shop and you’re presenting good work, then the owner has become dependent on you, and will not like the fact that you want to leave because now he’ll have to work! You’ll rock his world in the most uncomfortable way!!! :cheers . Firstly, you need to tell him the reasons you are unhappy and that your needs are not being met. He may tell you to GF right then and there, but if that’s the case, then he’s definitely using you and you don’t need to be working for him anyways. If you’re unhappy then he needs to know about it. Put a fair and achievable case forward to him (on paper, not just words!!!) for what you’d like to achieve (ie. working hours, $ package) and set a deliverable standard that you both can agree on. Talk about a bonus structure as well. This shows him that you have the best interests of his business in mind. Are you able to bring any of your own work into the shop? Perhaps you can structure a fair referral fee for bringing in this extra work that he ordinarily would never see.
Importantly, [u]you need to always remain confident no matter what objection he throws your way[/u]. What you need to do is pretty much make up in your mind that you ARE going to leave (before you even talk to your boss), and that what you’re talking about is a new deal to [i]retain[/i] you at the shop. If you can’t reach a mutual agreement, then you leave right there with your head held high. Wait a few days for him to squirm under the pressure of all the work he now has to do himself and don’t be surprised when he calls you begging you to come back, and agreeing to your new terms! That’s why he needs the proposal on paper, so he can do the math and mull it over AFTER he has calmed down. After all, if you’re doing great work for this guy and you are easy to get along with, then you are an asset to the business and this guy would be a fool to lose you.
But……IF you have to leave…perhaps see about presenting yourself as a contract worker to other shops in the area. That way, you just bill them your hourly rate and you cover your taxes/401K/sick leave/annual leave etc (make sure you increase your hourly rate to factor these ‘costs’ in). The benefit to them is they are not encumbered to you and if it doesn’t work out, then it’s easy and painless for both of you to part ways. You can also try out other shops to see what you like and if there is a fit. If not, you’re not locked in. But when meeting these shop owners, [u]make sure you carry an electronic folio on an Ipad[/u] to show the new shops what sort or work you can do and what you’re capable of. I get SO many painters wanting to work for me and the lazy bastards can’t even take the time to show me the work they’ve done in the past. They’ll all tell me they’ve worked on BMW’s, Porsche’s and Jaguar’s…but where’s the proof?! That’s not unlike a builder saying “hire me…I’m good”, without showing you any houses he has built!
Hope the above helps! Good luck and do keep us posted.
Cheers,
SimeI think a lot of it has to do with my age, and the fact that I’m single. I’m only 26 and they know I don’t have to support a family, so they feel like they can pay me less. It’s bullshit, I should be paid the same as anyone at my skill level, regardless of details like that. A lot of people I have worked for seem to take me less serious because of my age, especially when I was only in my early 20s. I have been doing this since I was 16, and have always just been reasonably talented. Being the shop “kid” gets old after awhile, especially when you can out perform some of the people who are working with you. It’s usually the jobbers and paint reps who are the most respectful, but they don’t have to sign my checks.
[quote=”sage” post=34916]I think a lot of it has to do with my age, and the fact that I’m single. I’m only 26 and they know I don’t have to support a family, so they feel like they can pay me less. It’s bullshit, I should be paid the same as anyone at my skill level, regardless of details like that. A lot of people I have worked for seem to take me less serious because of my age, especially when I was only in my early 20s. I have been doing this since I was 16, and have always just been reasonably talented. Being the shop “kid” gets old after awhile, especially when you can out perform some of the people who are working with you. It’s usually the jobbers and paint reps who are the most respectful, but they don’t have to sign my checks.[/quote]
It’s all irrelevant.
Follow my advice above. Stick to your guns. If he needs you and you walk, you hold the power.
PS. You’re welcome…. by the way. 😉
[quote=”Paintwerks” post=34912]Seems like you are being underpaid. In Melbourne Australia, I pay my guys $35 an hour.
[/quote]Wow! That’s more than double what I earn. I didn’t even get that much when I was running the place, organising the workload for the whole team, and painting 80-90 cars a week at the same time :blink:
No wonder one of the guys here is moving to your part of the world soon. He’s landed himself a job as a painter in St Kilda. Starts in around 6 weeks I think.
Andy, keep in mind that this $35-40 per hr is a contractor rate. The guys pay their own taxes, super/401K, their own workers insurance, they don’t get paid sick leave, annual leave or public holidays. There are also no penalty rates for overtime, weekends or if they choose to work on public holidays.
A ‘staffer’ receiving the above benefits as part of their package would likely be earning $20-25 ph depending on experience.
We get a lot of UK painters coming here to work. The lower end, high volume ‘sausage factory’ shops sponsor them then hire them on 457 working visas. These shops tend to pay pretty poorly and they have high employee turnover. I haven’t met many employees working at these sorts of shops that have ever claimed to be happy in their job…..plus a lot of ‘precious painters’ and politics to deal with too. Hope your friend has a better experience.
If it’s a shop in St. Kilda, I believe I know of the shop. I’ll keep my thoughts about them to myself however.
I know that you personally do great work Andy and I’m sure there are other great UK painters, but I haven’t had the best experiences with your compatriots that end up down under though……unfortunately while they claim they’re great painters, in reality they’re not up to the standards expected of decent quality shops in Australia.
Maybe they used to be good painters but the requirements of the shop (and customer expectations) they were working at in the UK might have been low/budget? Perhaps they weren’t able to do their best work due to the ‘type’ of work the shop took in?
Either way however, they don’t tend lift their game when they get here so I don’t know what’s going on? One painter at a shop I know told me they took in an Irish painter and he was shocking. Their apprentice was doing better work! The Irishman didn’t last long.
Contractor rate makes a bit more sense. The factors you mention plus the chance that they can be out of a job at a moments notice should the work dry up means they tend to get much better rates over here too.
And I’ve had a lot of UK painters through here that are all mouth and no trousers too, so it isn’t just you that has seen that trend :lol1 Saying you’re good at something is easy, actually producing the goods consistently isn’t. I’m hoping it all works out well for this guy though. He hasn’t picked up a spray gun in the short time he’s been with us, he’s been on bodywork & prep instead, so I’ve no idea what he can do, but I still wish him all the best.
There has been talk from one of the other guys (who paints occasionally) from when he was working for BMW. Apparently one of his mates did a transfer over to Oz through BMW but found there was a fair bit of animosity towards the British guys, definitely an “us & them” feeling, which eventually caused him to return to the UK. Hopefully that was just an isolated case.
[quote=”Paintwerks” post=34923]We get a lot of UK painters coming here to work.
I know that you personally do great work Andy and I’m sure there are other great UK painters, but I haven’t had the best experiences with your compatriots that end up down under though……unfortunately while they claim they’re great painters, in reality they’re not up to the standards expected of decent quality shops in Australia.
Maybe they used to be good painters but the requirements of the shop (and customer expectations) they were working at in the UK might have been low/budget? Perhaps they weren’t able to do their best work due to the ‘type’ of work the shop took in?
Either way however, they don’t tend lift their game when they get here so I don’t know what’s going on? One painter at a shop I know told me they took in an Irish painter and he was shocking. Their apprentice was doing better work! The Irishman didn’t last long.[/quote]
Most not all but most of the people I know and heard off heading over to you guys this past few years are are useless a**holes no matter what country there in lol and either work in very low end shops or never anywhere for long we’re happier some them are gone for awhile :hunt :dnc
Although we have lost some good labours, welders and friends to the sunnier climate.
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