PPG Envirobase
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I’ll just throw this out there about the haloing on blends.If you reduce 666 binder 10% and use it as a wet bed blend you will not have any haloing,also put your first coat of base on before your wet bed flashes.Secondly do not flick your wrist like you would doing a solvent blend,do your blend when you do your drop coat(control coat)and keep your gun from arcing on the blend.If you use autowave exactly like they tell you at the training center during the certification course it performs flawlessly and it is easy to work with.As rushing your clear with waterborne it will blush something fierce,just like the lacquer days.We have been using autowave for 9 months and we have had no problems.The 2 day training course in vancouver was worth its weight in gold.If you played with envirobase for a bit longer you would get the bugs worked out.
Just to add a few things if you don’t mind (since I’ve been using WB for a good few years now)
Yes you need to keep it above freezing (in storage AND transport!), but many mixing schemes come with heated shelving, which is more than enough to keep the cans warm enough. As ding says though, I wouldn’t really want to be storing anything at freezing anyway – a HS clear would be a nightmare to spray if stored at those temps.
And I agree with Jayson on the blending thing too. Whichever WB I’ve used, flicking out at the end of a blend makes things hard work. It takes some getting used to as it seems alien, but just simply stopping when you reach the end is the best way. I’ll make sure my first light coat of base goes well past the blend area, then just throw the wet coats on where needed, making sure I work from the outside in when more than one is needed, then all of the hard work is done on the last drop coat, which generally blends out extremely easily.
Mocoke – I find WB flashes more quickly than solvent base in the right conditons. Sure it doesn’t lend itself well to painting without a spraybooth, but if you have a decent booth airflow, and some blowers/air movers to pass turbulent air over the panels, it’s pretty quick drying. Most solvent seems to have 15 minutes per coat as a recommended flash time, 5-6 will do for WB 😉
PPG isn’t bad, I just think Cromax is easier. I still don’t really like their clears. They are supposed to be bringing in a Nexa clear for me to try.
[b]Andy T wrote:[/b]
[quote]
Mocoke – I find WB flashes more quickly than solvent base in the right conditons. Sure it doesn’t lend itself well to painting without a spraybooth, but if you have a decent booth airflow, and some blowers/air movers to pass turbulent air over the panels, it’s pretty quick drying. Most solvent seems to have 15 minutes per coat as a recommended flash time, 5-6 will do for WB ;)[/quote]So spraying waterborne without paint booth can be PITA? :unsure:
I paint in auto repair (mechanic) garage during weekends and NO problems whatsoever spraying solvents *knock on wood*.
It could be used with out a booth, but would be a pain. I have been on water almost a year now.. We started with BASF and switched to Sikkens mid year. I tried both Dupont and PPG water earlier this year. Both work, but their undercoats and clears both suck in my opinion. I was PPG years ago when DBC was just coming out and their clears havent changed much.. I agree with Ryan that autowave and 250 clear has the best out of gun look of them all. Just dont plan on flat sanding and buff it, gets very hard quickly. We have been using HS+ LV clear for most of our work. Switching was the best thing I have done in a few years.. Cant say I would go back to solvent. Would take some extreme conditions to use solvent again.
[b]ryanbrown999 wrote:[/b]
[quote]They are supposed to be bringing in a Nexa clear for me to try.[/quote]
I don’t suppose you know which one do you? I’ve used 6690 a lot, and found it to be reasonable good, but being such a high solids one it was prone thickening on the edges quite a bit, and you’d have no chance of getting any runs out as they’d just champagne (pop with thousands of tiny bubbles).I also used their express clear for a bit (6659 I think). Used with regular speed hardener and it’s dedicated accelerated reducer, you were looking at 10-15 minutes bake time with no loss of gloss. Ideal for those smaller jobs, but I wouldn’t have done more than 2 panels with it due to it being pretty hard to buff.
[b]zarbat007 wrote:[/b][quote]I paint in auto repair (mechanic) garage during weekends..[/quote]
Me too, that’s how I know. Don’t get me wrong, it can certainly be done, it’s just a bit more of a bind than using solvent base (especially this time of year when it’s so cold!). I use a hot air gun to blow it dry, which gives me both the temps and air movement that WB needs.[b]Joe@FCAB wrote:[/b]
[quote] Cant say I would go back to solvent. Would take some extreme conditions to use solvent again.[/quote]Me too. They’d have to drag me kicking and screaming back to solvent!
Hey Andy, I’m pretty sure it’s 6690. It will be hard for me to find something that beats Spies Hecker 8035. I just love that clear. Lays flat, dries good, easy to buff, and won’t pop.
What do you think looks better, the Nexa or Debeer?
I’d go with the DeBeer any day, especially as it’s around half the price of 6690!
As I say, the NEXA stuff was reasonable, but it would never be my first choice as I found it quite hard work to get it to lay slick enough even to match OE peel. And if you didn’t get it right first time, you were done for, as any more than 1½ coats and it would pop like crazy when baked. And it really loves to flow when you put it on bake. You know the kind of ‘thickening’ you get when you’re right on the limit in a certain area but it hasn’t quite run? (maybe you don’t, maybe it’s just me :silly: ) Well turn your back on 6690 and by the time it’s come out of the oven it will have cascaded down the panel, no matter how long you’ve left it to flash!
I had my reservations when we switched over to the DeBeer 8-214, mainly because I’ve never been impressed by ‘cheap’ clears, but I was very pleasantly surprised. At the time of the changeover I kept a gallon of 6690 hidden in my cupboard for any real quality jobs that came in, but the DeBeer is so good that I’ve never had it out, nor would I want to, as although it may be low cost, it’s certainly not a ‘cheap’ clear, if you know what I mean.
But don’t let me put you off trying it :rofl
[b]ryanbrown999 wrote:[/b]
[quote] I still don’t really like their clears. They are supposed to be bringing in a Nexa clear for me to try.[/quote]So are a lot of guys using one companies base coats and another companies clears on jobs? How does that effect your warranty?
It’s not really that uncommon. Most people stick to one company though. I use Spies Hecker clear on Cromax Pro. Cromax was designed off of Permahyd which is Spies. Dupont didn’t buy Herberts for it’s market share, they bought it for the technology.
By sticking with one company I mean
BASF- R-M or Glasurit
PPG- PPG or Nexa (used to be ICI)
Dupont- Spies Hecker, Standox, or Dupont
Akzo Nobel- Sikkens or LesonalThere shouldn’t be any warranty issues as long as you stay with the same company or don’t use their economy line.
have any of you guys actually got a paint company to warranty a paintjob? everyone always talks about warranty but i’ve never hard of a paint company do anything other than give you a free gallon of clear…..although i dont work in a production shop either. just curious?
yes,we did a warranty on an eagle international highway tractor.The back panel and side panel of the cab had to be changed due to corrosion.These are glued and riveted in place and are a big job to change.To make a long story short we were told to use an etch primer on bare aluminum,so it was given a coat before the rivets went in to hold on the panel.Anyway we were given the wrong primer and had some peeling.We called our rep and we were paid to do the job over to the tune of $8000,no problems,no complaining,end of story.That is why I speak so highly of akzo nobel,we have been spraying sikkens in our shop since 1987 and they take good care of us.I would also like to add that we have only had a few warranty problems in the past 22 years.
Yeah sherwin warrantied a job for us once. I think it was for a color issuse though. I would just be worried about something going wrong when using diffenent MFGs. If it did happen you wouldnt have a leg to stand on. They should pay for anything that goes wrong. That was part of our contract though.
In 10+ years of spraying I have never had to have anything warrantied. Some things I wouldn’t mix but the trainers told me mixing Spies with Cromax would be fine. I would rather have Spies clear on my car than a Dupont clear.
with the type of work i do i have to mix everything. no one paint comapny makes the best of everything which is needed to do custom paint. in this business we pretty much abuse paint and have completely unorthodox procedures so the stuff has to work. its alot of trial and error of using different products and brands until you find the combination that works really really well. for the most part though i try to stick with one brand’s color (rm) and one brands primers and clears (spi). they all work great together.
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