Problems with runs
- This topic has 40 replies, 16 voices, and was last updated 12 years, 9 months ago by .
- Posts
I own a shop that does probably 50% overall paint jobs and 50% spot jobs. We have a older crossflow spray booth. I am using a Sikkens Base along with a Keystone clear. My problem is that I cannot find a painter that can paint a car without putting runs all over it. To be fair on our all overs we are not disassembling the vehicles. Mirrors and door handles usually stay on. In a previous job I managed a shop doing the same thing I am doing. I watched that painter paint probably 700 cars with very few runs. My painters have kept telling me that it’s the environment that they are painting in that is causing the problems, but I am not buying it. We have been open since August of 2011, the runs happened during the 95 degree days of summer and the cold days of winter. I am on my second painter getting ready for the third. What I am trying to figure out is if I haven’t found a skilled enough painter or if there is something that I am not providing them that is causing the problem. My painter uses 2 satajet 4000rp paint guns, not cheap. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Does you booth have enough airflow?eg when was the last time the exhaust fan and stack was cleaned out,filters changed often?Sometimes with cheap clears they dry to fast and you have to really lay it on to stay wet,this could be leading up to 2 much film build resulting in runs.Maybe try a better clear,most of the keystone stuff is not desirable.
i agree with Jayson about first inspecting and cleaning your equipment. Our shop experienced this same scenario back in the day when we used to spray single stage paints and our painter would always have runs. He always blamed it on the weather, the booth, compressor, gun or paint so to narrow it down my dad painted the next car himself and it turned out great. to make a long story short, it turned out the painter wasnt mixing in the correct amount of hardener and was over reducing the paint.
Is there temperature specific hardeners for that clear? And the painter that you speak of that painted 700 jobs sounds very experienced and there is no way a new painter using a new product to them will get the same results.
Our booth does have enough airflow. Filters are changed regularly, exhaust stack was cleaned very recently. I am in the process of ordering a new modified downdraft booth with a cure cycle. Should be installed in a couple of months. As far as over reducing the paint, the mixing system I am using has the option to mix paints RTS (ready to spray) so over or under reducing shouldn’t be an issue. The keystone clear I am using is a inexpensive clear and I realize that. I run a economy paint operation and for the prices I charge I can’t really afford to use a nicer clear. I am using the keystone euro clear now. In the past I have used Sherwin Williams Finish One clear as well as Wanda clear (Sikkens). The amount of runs really hasn’t changed with the different clears. I am really banging my head against the wall trying to figure out how to fix this problem by some other means than just running painters out the door. Most of the time the runs can be wet sanded out, but because of the kind of operation I run doing so robs my profit.
Yes there are temp specific hardeners for the clear and I stock all 3 of them. The painter that I saw paint 700 cars is not employed by me despite my best efforts. I also do understand that a painter needs time to become familiar with the products I am using. My most recent painter has been with me two months and still hasn’t figured it out.
Personally I would dump the keystone clear and look into using lesonal universal clear(very affordable),it might be easier for you.How experienced is your painter?
the keystone clear is garbage hands down. if you want a better clear for a better price go with USC Morton 40 glamour clear.
Thanks for the advice on the clear, I will look into the clears you mentioned. The two painters I have had are moderately experienced. In a high end collision shop where all the parts are removed and you are painting bare panels they would probably do ok. I pull a older cavalier in the booth with everything still on it but the license plates and emblems. I understand that it’s more difficult, but I still should be able to get cars painted without runs everywhere.
Well you might want to look at technique also,maybe they are just panel painting with to much overlap resulting in runs.Much easier to walk the sides or do at least a couple of panels.I will paint the roof,trunk,door quarter,door quarter,then the frontend.That is for a downdraft,a crossflow is slightly different.
[quote=”thenextlevel” post=24959] the mixing system I am using has the option to mix paints RTS (ready to spray) so over or under reducing shouldn’t be an issue.[/quote]
Enlighten me and please explain this.
nevermind they told me already
I guess if the painters use this option then it should not be an issue I am a PPG user so forgive my ignorance on Sikkens
might it be better to use a cheaper base and better clear? something good to lock in the stuff below. 😉
got to remeber euro clears r design to dry slower, your guys may not useing enough flash time. try some omni mc161 clear, very nice clear for being cheap.
As far as technique is concerned both of the painters I have tried paint differently. Instead of painting the car from the front fender back they jump around and paint different panels I imagine this does cause some overlap. As far as flash times we are using 15 minutes between coats. Have a painter auditioning today at 1pm, hopefully I will find some talent.
If you are using Sikkens paints you might also try the pro air clears as well, these clears do very well in cross flow booths and dont run very easily, I can also vouch for the Universal clear that Jayson mentioned earlier, I went from Pro Air to Universal and love the Universal. I was struggling with some runs with the Universal but with a little help figured it out. Some of the things that helped me were to ensure that my clear was hand slick before putting on my second coat, increased my air pressure by about 5 lbs and put my first coat on med wet instead of full wet. I shoot in an old cross flow with no make up unit, so when it cooled down had to learn how to paint again. Another thing that helped out was to get one of those laser thermometer to check what the panel temp was before I started to clear. I had the room at about 70 degrees but alot of times the panel temp was alot cooler than that. Another thing, with the cheaper clears like the Finish 1 and Wanda they both tend to run fairly easy. You dont have to hammer them on to get them to lay down nice, the thing that I have found that works for me is to put the first coat on real light and not worry so much about getting it to glass up and then concentrate on making it look right on the second coat.
Chuck
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.