Problems with runs
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Thanks for the info, I am going to look at some of the clears you mentioned to see if that can help the problem.
One question – how long are you giving these painters to settle in?
Moving to a new job, new products, new booth etc is bound to be a challenge for even the best painter, and it might take them several jobs to get into the swing of things. They’ll need to learn how the products work first, then get to grips with the fluctuations inside the spray booth. Even my fairly high spec 4 year old full downdraft booth doesn’t have perfectly uniform airflow and temperature. If I do get a run I know it’s going to be in the left hand rear corner, as that’s the (relative) cold spot. To counteract this I try to start my first coat of clear in that corner, and finish my second coat there. That gives the longest possible flash time between coats in that area. Maybe they just need to get used to reading your booth in a similar way, which only comes with practice.
I’m not trying to defend them as I don’t know them, but trying to suggest possible reasons for the problems you are having. And if they’ve been there months, then just ignore me :lol1
[quote=”Andy T” post=25012]One question – how long are you giving these painters to settle in?
Moving to a new job, new products, new booth etc is bound to be a challenge for even the best painter, and it might take them several jobs to get into the swing of things. They’ll need to learn how the products work first, then get to grips with the fluctuations inside the spray booth. Even my fairly high spec 4 year old full downdraft booth doesn’t have perfectly uniform airflow and temperature. If I do get a run I know it’s going to be in the left hand rear corner, as that’s the (relative) cold spot. To counteract this I try to start my first coat of clear in that corner, and finish my second coat there. That gives the longest possible flash time between coats in that area. Maybe they just need to get used to reading your booth in a similar way, which only comes with practice.
I’m not trying to defend them as I don’t know them, but trying to suggest possible reasons for the problems you are having. And if they’ve been there months, then just ignore me :lol1[/quote]
Yeah both my painters had 2-3 months before I moved them out of the paint booth. I have auditioned 2 people so far this week and neither one went well. Tomorrow I have a guy with 20+ years experience trying out so hopefully he can get the job done.
Ya sure you’re not swaping the clear out for water :whistle:
[quote=”thenextlevel” post=24977]As far as technique is concerned both of the painters I have tried paint differently. Instead of painting the car from the front fender back they jump around and paint different panels I imagine this does cause some overlap. As far as flash times we are using 15 minutes between coats. Have a painter auditioning today at 1pm, hopefully I will find some talent.[/quote]
no disrespect ment
but it sounds like you are running an economy operation, and there is nothing wrong with that at all.
I find it very strange that your painters are jumping all over the place when carrying out a complete.
Sounds like inexperienced painters to me.
If you are running an economy shop do you think you are paying enough, would this maybe be why you have painters that cant paint, when it comes to painters and running a shop, this is one area you have to go the extra mile and employee the best painter you can afford, if you have any doubts you should look to the next person.
It is an old saying a good painter can hide a bad panel man’s work but if you have a bad painter he spoils everybody else’s work
Leaving parts on should not really affect any painter, mirrors can be a pest if you forget they are there and suddenly your spray gun stops dead and whoops lol, i am sure all painters have had this happen at some point or another.
I am running an economy operation. As far as paying my painters I put them on commission, the last guy would be making $20 hour if he paints 4 cars a day. I don’t have a problem paying a painter what he is worth, I am just having a problem finding someone who is worth what I am paying.
[quote=”nick@dunsdale” post=25028]
Leaving parts on should not really affect any painter, mirrors can be a pest if you forget they are there and suddenly your spray gun stops dead and whoops lol, i am sure all painters have had this happen at some point or another.[/quote]
Once or twice :whistle: :blush:I completely agree with you though Nick, it shouldn’t make a great deal of difference to the painter if parts are left on. More work for whoever is doing the masking of course (more accuracy required), but that shouldn’t affect the painter.
Most of our stuff is done like that, and I have a general rule of thumb: If it’s quicker to remove than mask up, then off it comes. If it’ll unduly affect the quality of the job by staying in place, then again it comes off. Other than that everything gets taped up and I paint around it 🙂
[quote=”thenextlevel” post=25029] As far as paying my painters I put them on commission, the last guy would be making [b]$20 hour if he paints 4 cars a day[/b]. I don’t have a problem paying a painter what he is worth, I am just having a problem finding someone who is worth what I am paying.[/quote]
Where do I sign?
That’s much more than I’m getting now, for much less work! :blink: :huh: 😆
[quote=”Andy T” post=25030][quote=”nick@dunsdale” post=25028]
Leaving parts on should not really affect any painter, mirrors can be a pest if you forget they are there and suddenly your spray gun stops dead and whoops lol, i am sure all painters have had this happen at some point or another.
[/quote]
Once or twice :whistle: :blush:)[/quote]
lol i was being diplomatic
and yes i have come to a dead stop on a mirror lets say more than once or twice :whistle:, not for a long time now though
[quote=”thenextlevel” post=25029]I am running an economy operation. As far as paying my painters I put them on commission, the last guy would be making $20 hour if he paints 4 cars a day. I don’t have a problem paying a painter what he is worth, I am just having a problem finding someone who is worth what I am paying.[/quote]
4 cars a day should be no problem for any painter, four complete’s may be a little harder i will leave them for the experienced under 30yo old guys with loads of energy lol
[quote=”nick@dunsdale” post=25034][quote=”thenextlevel” post=25029]I am running an economy operation. As far as paying my painters I put them on commission, the last guy would be making $20 hour if he paints 4 cars a day. I don’t have a problem paying a painter what he is worth, I am just having a problem finding someone who is worth what I am paying.[/quote]
4 cars a day should be no problem for any painter, four complete’s may be a little harder i will leave them for the experienced under 30yo old guys with loads of energy lol[/quote]
4 partial cars a day for a flat rate shop translates from anywhere from 16 hours,to 40 and up,hell 4 completes would be 100+ hours! :wak
$20 bucks an hour isn’t enough for straight time workers.[quote=”thenextlevel” post=24955]I own a shop that does probably 50% overall paint jobs and 50% spot jobs. We have a older crossflow spray booth. I am using a Sikkens Base along with a Keystone clear. My problem is that I cannot find a painter that can paint a car without putting runs all over it. To be fair on our all overs we are not disassembling the vehicles. Mirrors and door handles usually stay on. In a previous job I managed a shop doing the same thing I am doing. I watched that painter paint probably 700 cars with very few runs. My painters have kept telling me that it’s the environment that they are painting in that is causing the problems, but I am not buying it. We have been open since August of 2011, the runs happened during the 95 degree days of summer and the cold days of winter. I am on my second painter getting ready for the third. What I am trying to figure out is if I haven’t found a skilled enough painter or if there is something that I am not providing them that is causing the problem. My painter uses 2 satajet 4000rp paint guns, not cheap. Any help would be greatly appreciated.[/quote]
I purchased a 4000 brp less than a year ago for clear,I refer to it as a”runless” gun,as it lays clear down flat effortlessly,runs are a non-issue unless I rush it,which comes down to technition error.[quote=”candyman” post=25061]4 partial cars a day for a flat rate shop translates from anywhere from 16 hours,to 40 and up,hell 4 completes would be 100+ hours! :wak
$20 bucks an hour isn’t enough for straight time workers.[/quote]25 hours to paint a car in the kind of economy shop we are talking about? :huh:
Maybe if they are doing some prep and all of the masking, but if we’re taking about just putting the paint on, then I’d say 2 hours at the most for a regular base & clear job. Painting a full car (10-12 panels) doesn’t take much longer than painting 3 or 4 panels, as most of your time is spent waiting for it to flash off anyway.
[quote=”candyman” post=25061][quote=”nick@dunsdale” post=25034][quote=”thenextlevel” post=25029]I am running an economy operation. As far as paying my painters I put them on commission, the last guy would be making $20 hour if he paints 4 cars a day. I don’t have a problem paying a painter what he is worth, I am just having a problem finding someone who is worth what I am paying.[/quote]
4 cars a day should be no problem for any painter, four complete’s may be a little harder i will leave them for the experienced under 30yo old guys with loads of energy lol[/quote]
4 partial cars a day for a flat rate shop translates from anywhere from 16 hours,to 40 and up,hell 4 completes would be 100+ hours! :wak
$20 bucks an hour isn’t enough for straight time workers.[/quote]Economy paint shop. I run my operation very similar to a Maaco. Total prep time is less than 3 hours and it’s in the booth. If I spent anywhere near the times you mentioned I would be out of business.
Hi.
This is my first post here so please excuse any ignorance.
I am 22 and I would say I am also of similar experience as the guys you are employing. I have been painting full time around 4 years now.
I was taught with a SATA and I never felt in control putting the paint on, it just seemed to run.
In the end I bought a different gun, a Devilbiss Gti Pro and since then I dont remember the last time I got a run or sag.
I also found using a slightly better clear (Lechler) than previous the result was alot better.
So maybe your guys are not experience enough to be top coating or clear coating with a SATA?
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