Quck rivot question
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I have started working on my vintage 1971 Ford F-100 truck and am beginning the cancer surgery. I tried to weld a piece of 22 gauge sheet metal (that’s all they had at the place where I get my paint and stuff) and the Lincoln HD mig welder seems to be too hot for the job. Here are my question?
1. Should I use a huge amount of patience and just spot weld in different spot until I make my way all the way around the piece?
2. Should I get rid of all the rust in the hole and just use rivets. This is the way I did it when I was in high school because I couldn’t afford a welder. Now I have a mig welder and it;s too hot for the job.
Please advise?
Weld it, and if it’s the same welder I’m thinking about it goes down to 30 amps.
Which is more than acceptable for sheet metal… When I first started doing this stuff, I welded sheetmetal with a mig welder that only went down to 60 amps for a couple years.
You’ll learn how to adjust your heat through wire speed, and gun distance.
A welder setup right can do amazing things, a welder that isn’t setup right will create a mess.
There practically is no middle ground, especially when using cheap minimal adjustment welders.My question is why 22 gauge? That’s damn thin for any part on a 71′ Ford that I can think of…
90% of that truck is 20 gauge or thicker.Using thinner sheet metal then what’s on the body isn’t going to give you much more than a patch in the middle of a panel that likes to oil can and make body work a PITA.
As far as welding technique. You NEVER weld a single bead all the way around a patch on sheet-metal. You’ll warp the *** outta’ it pulling that.
Always leap frog. Spot weld after spotweld on opposite corners until it all meets together as one.
Making sure you aren’t getting too much heat on the panel. If it starts to get too hot. Stop and let it cool down before you continue.The only time I would suggest rivets is if you’re using panel bond adhesive…
Just riveting a piece of metal is creating a sandwiched area for moisture to accumulate.I have never once in all the old garbage I have worked on seen an “Old school” Rivet job not fail.
If you don’t trust your welding skill. Then use panel adhesive.
[b]RatStang wrote:[/b]
[quote]The only time I would suggest rivets is if you’re using panel bond adhesive…
Just riveting a piece of metal is creating a sandwiched area for moisture to accumulate.I have never once in all the old garbage I have worked on seen an “Old school” Rivet job not fail.
If you don’t trust your welding skill. Then use panel adhesive.[/quote]
Panel bond it! :cheer:
Adhesive turns my crank…and is excellent at preventing rust. If you need metal for a patch, you can always cut a (good) old piece from whatever you have laying around. And the nice thing with that is that the back side of the panel may already coated with E-Coat.
excellent advice ya got there on long lasting repairs ben great job ya ol post whore
if done right … i’ve seen plenty of failing adhesive jobs. and when it comes to structural integrity, I have my doubts :pcorn:
Exactly. Panel bonding is designed to bond non-structual components only. So a rust patch is the perfect application. But as with anything, it needs to be done as per the manufacturers directions.
[b]Ben wrote:[/b]
[quote]Exactly. Panel bonding is designed to bond non-structual components only. So a rust patch is the perfect application. But as with anything, it needs to be done as per the manufacturers directions.[/quote]
exactly! i have seen plenty of welded patch pnls fail but ive seen glued panls resist the elements way better theres more than one way ta skin a cat 😉OK, I had my Lincoln Weld-Pad HD on the lowest setting possible and still burned holes in the sheet metal. The fact that it is 22 gauge is the first problem, I would rather have 19 gauge metal (1971 style, haha). So, the glue (assuming it”s some kind of epoxy is sounding better all the time. I will just glue it larger than the hole and let bondo do it’s thing. Maybe if I can find some good metal I will go back to welding, but not with this 22 gauge metal. Thanks guys, I guess the old rivet gun has to go bye-bye. Why do they still rivet airplanes together then?
Sounds like you just need a little more practice welding. You’re probably just a little trigger happy.
I like running 110v mig units on a pretty high heat setting and use quick little tacks. Burns in better and lays flatter than a low heat setting IMO.
22ga sheetmetal isn’t that hard to weld in as a patch.
Held the trigger for 1/2 second at most. I have been welding, not continuously, for over 20 years. I have never seen sheet metal burn this quickly. I even tried to weld it directly to the truck body and not cut in a patch (that means there was no gap between the new metal and the old metal in the body of the truck). And there is not one burn through on the truck, just metal from the mig stuck to it and in the hole where the 22 gauge metal was burned through
I need to find some 20 – 18 gauge metal somewhere around here and do it again. That problem will be solved I assume. Thanks for all the responses, might just glue it also, but in all my years, welding was never a problem.
As far as welding, the type of shielding gas you use can make a big difference. Also, how are you joining the metal when you weld, are you lapping it, recessed lap or using an insert? I hope you weren’t trying to butt it.
And with the panel bonding, the product can come as a urethane, epoxy or occasionally acrylic. Look closely at what you buy and read the tech sheets. Some of them do not allow body filler to be applied on top unless there is a layer of epoxy primer between (like with the urethane Norton speed grip). YOu will need the patch to be larger than the repair area so there is sufficient overlap to allow adhesion (typically about 1/2″ around the panel).
You have to be careful,toyota does not want inserts used in collision repairs and they want a butt weld,some other manufactures are following that trend.I don’t care how you do it if you use panel bond on a seam it will ghost every time.Panel bond has it’s place for door skins,roof skins,and wheel well lips,but never on a seam period,fusor and others lie,I have seen it fail numerous times first hand.
I was lapping it at the last stages, figured they would sure be good spot welds in that case, but alas, no luck for Doc. I have to go away for work and will try to get some 20 gauge minimum metal when I come back. We shall see, it’s puzzling me terribly, I have done it numerous times and just don’t understand. No shielding gas, flux core wire, never needed gas before now. But that would work much better, just won’t be going out to buy a new mig welder, haha. Thanks.
This is a 1971 Ford F-100 truck and it’s my truck, not a job for someone else. That’s interesting to know about Toyoto though, will keep that in mind. What about BMW, I may have to do some cancer surgery on one shortly?
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