Spray Can Primers with Water
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[quote=”MoCoke” post=15528][quote=”timbo” post=15526]early morning mix of epoxy sealer is the ticket… :clappy[/quote]
your still mixing, masking, spraying, cleaning the gun…throwing away unused product.[/quote]
no masking and cleaning a gun that was just used to blast a little epoxy only takes a few seconds. still faster than having to redo one from using a spray can primer. Keep it mixed up in a disposable cup. It’s pretty damn simple really.
Water won’t stick very good to bare metal. The manufactuers say not to put spray can primers or etch underneath. Sounds like there are only a few options there guys. Lets not major in a minor. I know why Jimmo was asking because mixing a little sealer for every job just for a couple little burn throughs is wasteful and time consuming. If your not production painting it doesn’t matter.
I’m not one to put something underneath my base that they tell me not too. Just because it may work in the short term and leave the shop doesn’t mean that it will last out on the road. Sh!t I can not sand a car before painting it and get it to leave the shop, but that doesn’t mean I did a good job on it or it will last.
Also just because something hasn’t burned you yet doesn’t mean that it won’t. What if say in two years all the jobs start coming back, how big of a fuking mess would that be. The paint companies give you guidelines for a reason. It’s not so they sell more sealer, it’s to give you a repair that lasts.
I’m sure most companies will end up coming out with a 1K product for use under waterborne basecoat but as of now most don’t. If I’m not mistaken I think there are some in Europe as Paintpot was saying.
[quote=”ryanbrown999″ post=15531][quote=”MoCoke” post=15528][quote=”timbo” post=15526]early morning mix of epoxy sealer is the ticket… :clappy[/quote]
your still mixing, masking, spraying, cleaning the gun…throwing away unused product.[/quote]
no masking and cleaning a gun that was just used to blast a little epoxy only takes a few seconds. still faster than having to redo one from using a spray can primer. Keep it mixed up in a disposable cup. It’s pretty damn simple really.
Water won’t stick very good to bare metal. The manufactuers say not to put spray can primers or etch underneath. Sounds like there are only a few options there guys. Lets not major in a minor. I know why Jimmo was asking because mixing a little sealer for every job just for a couple little burn throughs is wasteful and time consuming. If your not production painting it doesn’t matter.
I’m not one to put something underneath my base that they tell me not too. Just because it may work in the short term and leave the shop doesn’t mean that it will last out on the road. Sh!t I can not sand a car before painting it and get it to leave the shop, but that doesn’t mean I did a good job on it or it will last.
Also just because something hasn’t burned you yet doesn’t mean that it won’t. What if say in two years all the jobs start coming back, how big of a fuking mess would that be. The paint companies give you guidelines for a reason. It’s not so they sell more sealer, it’s to give you a repair that lasts.
I’m sure most companies will end up coming out with a 1K product for use under waterborne basecoat but as of now most don’t. If I’m not mistaken I think there are some in Europe as Paintpot was saying.[/quote]
no no im totally against using any aerosol primer or paint except weld thru primer. i suggested using sherwin williams squeegee prime for that reason. i use it on break thrus and to prime small areas. similar to the roll it primer craze years ago but less mess and easier to use. dont know why its not very popular yet but its such a time and material saver.
He needs it for a sealer. Just blow it on, let sit for 5-10 and go on with basecoat.
The spreadable sounds cool, but for a small cut through re-priming might be kinda slow. Can you use that primer as a sealer. As in not sanding it and being able to spray right over it?
which brings up an interesting point don’t most paint companies recomend to seal everthing b/4 paint for the best results? so are the non sealed panels going to look good 5 years down the road? and no i don’t seal everything cuz i hate spot sealing…:compsmash
well it sort of flows out okay, but needs to be sanded, you can wet sand it pretty nicely after about a half hour and its a lot cheaper then these aerosal primers. there is one company now that i think about it called spray max which does make a 2k aerosal primer or you make it and charge it up not sure how it goes something like Rat suggested
They only recommend sealing new panels or over bare metal. If you have a repaired panel with primer the only reason you need to seal is if there are too deep of a sand scratch, correct undercoat color or if there are cut-throughs to metal. If the scratches are in line with what basecoat can handle you can go straight to base.
With that said I like sealing what I can. I can start off with a deeper scratch for better mechanical adhesion. My basecoat will also have chemical adhesion underneath and on top. Basecoat will always be your weakest link in a paintjob. Chemical adhesion will always trump mechanical. Therefore imo sealing leads to a longer lasting repair as you benefit from both mechanical and chemical adhesion starting from the bottom.
This is just my opinion on this btw. There are alot of ways to skin a cat.
[quote=”MoCoke” post=15535]well it sort of flows out okay, but needs to be sanded, you can wet sand it pretty nicely after about a half hour and its a lot cheaper then these aerosal primers. there is one company now that i think about it called spray max which does make a 2k aerosal primer or you make it and charge it up not sure how it goes something like Rat suggested[/quote]
There is no way that charging up an aresol can with 2K would be cost effective. It will harden once activated, ruining the material inside and the can. It would be good for use on 1 maybe 2 cars.
The reason epoxy is recommended is the pot-life is so long. Urethane sealers have a pot-life of maybe 2 hours max. Epoxy is at least 8 hours usually. Mix up once a day and done.
i was told i could use the etch prime. and true, does it mean you wont have problems down the road. no, but that’s what the warranty is for. i haven’t had a problem with ppg warranting their products. and plus you have to wait. that’s going to be the thing with water over the next few yrs.. we’ll have to wait and see what can really be done, and what can’t.
as a matter of fact when they came out with the new version of enviro, they told people not use dc3000 clear, then change their mind, when so many painters ignored them, and were haveing success with it. and that came out of their mouths. but they adimenant about not use dch70 with dc3000.Hey if they are telling you it’s ok, go for it. All I have heard is not too.
well honestly, ryanbrown999, i seal everything and rarely use the etch prime, i also understand where jimmo’s comeing from, who wants to mix sealer for an edge where you burned through in the sanding process. i feel like a small area like that is fine to use etch. after a few mins. you could hit it with a scotch pad then go to it.
I’ve thought about the epoxy idea but it seems like it would still be such a slow down, doing it in the booth i got another flash time and doing it on the floor i’m almost guaranteed to have to sand it down a bit, and the epoxy will take a while to dry. What were doing now is shooting some waterborne primer for the most part but with all the 5 o’clock rushes from the dealers and the go-go atmosphere often the gun would be forgotten about at the end of the day. In all honesty we have used a bit of spray primer here and there and the consequences seem to be it will lift on the edges if you dont dust on your first coat or two of base over it. I mean I can get by with the water primer but was just wondering if anybody heard otherwise of any products out or maybe on the way out, spray primer be pretty handy in some cases.
Hey Ryan what epoxy are you using?
Lild keep in mind waterborne has been in use in Europe since 94.The sikkens system I have been using has been around that long and ICI Aquabase is a company that ppg bought(now called nexa aquabase plus,where envirobase came from)has also been used since that time,no bugs to be worked out.
Sikkens says no to etch primer,unless I seal over it,and as far as a 1K primer..no way I have seen what happens,the waterborne will eat into it and it will fail,peeling,mapping,die off etc.well, jimmo i never had any sealer or the etch prime lifting on me if i hit too hard with the water(wet) the only thing it does, is soak in. if that happens i wait another 5 mins. go at it again. what kind of brand of water are you useing?
right about another flash time…. i have to wait 5-10 minutes but you see i am not the production gotta get a bunch done and out the door type a guy….
[quote=”Jayson M” post=15544]Hey Ryan what epoxy are you using?
Lild keep in mind waterborne has been in use in Europe since 94.The sikkens system I have been using has been around that long and ICI Aquabase is a company that ppg bought(now called nexa aquabase plus,where envirobase came from)has also been used since that time,no bugs to be worked out.
Sikkens says no to etch primer,unless I seal over it,and as far as a 1K primer..no way I have seen what happens,the waterborne will eat into it and it will fail,peeling,mapping,die off etc.[/quote]
yeah i know, i’ve read all the stuff on it. as matter of fact their still useing the aquabase lable.
but, i have painted a car, had to repaint it, cut through the fresh clear, only down to the base, and reabase it with enviro, and no lifting or busting up of the fresh clear. but that’s why i ask what brand he is useing. you know how that goes, we each have our certain problems.
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