Spray Can Primers with Water
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well if that’s the case. i use a light coat of etch prime on it.
Jayson, I use the Sikkens Epoxy EP. I think they recommend the Autocoat LV Epoxy. They only want you using it that way for burn-throughs to metal. Not using it as a full fledged sealer. They told me water doesn’t like going straight over epoxy that much. Said chemical adhesion isn’t good. The key is over-reducing it with SRA. Works fast.
Too be honest though I end up sealing most everything. Most cars I paint usually have a new panel or bumper cover with them anyway. On ones that don’t the chances the bodyman put the right shade of sealer on, prepper didn’t leave blocking scratches or burn the sh!t out of every edge is very rare! I am just used to sealing. Colorbuild plus is a very fast sealer anyway and doesn’t really slow me down very much. If I was trying to get 1-2 more cars out of the booth a day sealing might become a pita.
Jimmo, the key to using the epoxy for cut-throughs is over-reducing it with clearcoat blender. At least with Sikkens and Dupont. It puts on a nice very thin wet coat that the edges melt right in. Flashes fast. Just dust it on lightly and it is done in a couple minutes. It could be done on the shop floor easily. I always use an old SRI for it. On days where I have a bunch of small jobs that should not require sealing this is the method I use. It would be nice if they would develop an aerosol just for this purpose, but no such luck at this point. :unsure:
Lild, a burn-through from fresh clear to old substrate shouldn’t lift with anybodys water. I would not seal that ever. Hell water will do a better job of holding it down than any solvent product. I was only talking about bare metal spots.
I use lesonal spray can primer and have never had a problem, their data sheet says that it can be overcoated with WB basecoat.
See link, 6th data sheet down
http://www.lesonal.co.uk/lesonal/uk/Products/Pages/TDSOverview.aspx
[quote=”nick@dunsdale” post=15573]I use lesonal spray can primer and have never had a problem, their data sheet says that it can be overcoated with WB basecoat.
See link, 6th data sheet down
http://www.lesonal.co.uk/lesonal/uk/Products/Pages/TDSOverview.aspx%5B/quote%5D
I don’t think we are lucky enough to have that product over here. I am pretty sure Sikkens has one like that in the UK also. I’m sure in 5 or so years it will make it’s way over here.
:whistle:I know the ones we have do as Jayson stated. Not compatable at all.
ryan i may have miss read what he wrote, i thought he said he was geting lifting with burn thrus with the water. maybe he meant the primer.
I think he was getting lifting when he used spray can primer. He was using the primer in the first place for small burns on edges.
To be honest I didn’t know you could get waterborne basecoat to lift. I will spray over a cut-through all day long, as long as it hasn’t gone to metal. That’s one thing I love about it. Especially if you have to get back into a job that was just painted. Your base lays down just as easy as the first time and blends fine. With solvent it was a pain in the ass all the way through if you had to repaint one.
agreed. i was amazed the first time i had to repaint a 20 min old job, and went throught the clear, rebased no lifting, no frying. heaven.
Ryan,
Just for comparison, The Envirobase is not recommended to go over epoxy at all (as of yet). PPG brought in a prototype epoxy to us a few months ago, we’ll see if it ever gets developed. PPG does allow us to use their OneChoice aerosol primer under the base.
When I used CromaxPro, the DuPont rep preferred that we use the Epoxy as sealer and we were ok spraying it over their aerosol primer. But Cromax is a little different than many of the others. When I painted my car with Cromax, I sealed it with 1 coat of epoxy followed by a 30 minute flash prior to basing it. It has been about 3 years and holding up well. Adhesion seems to be excellent.
Obviously they are all different, but it is interesting comparing the differences in water base.
i like the one choice system. ben are you useing the new enviro sealers yet?
Personally I think comparing different waterborne brands is almost like comparing apple to oranges, where solvent systems were a lot more similar to one another.
[quote=”dcturcotte” post=15605]Personally I think comparing different waterborne brands is almost like comparing apple to oranges, where solvent systems were a lot more similar to one another.[/quote]
Exactly. After comparing Cromax to Envirobase, Gloabl and Chromabase almost seem identical. 😆
[b]
lild, [/b] we are using the new sealer. I like them a lot. They spray awesome, lay down incredibly smooth and dry very fast (not to mention they make denibbing easy when needed). My only complaint is that the white is a little transparent (not a big surprise) and that thy don’t fill 80 grit scratches or rock chips and dents :whistle:[quote=”Ben” post=15599]Ryan,
Just for comparison, The Envirobase is not recommended to go over epoxy at all (as of yet). PPG brought in a prototype epoxy to us a few months ago, we’ll see if it ever gets developed. PPG does allow us to use their OneChoice aerosol primer under the base.
When I used CromaxPro, the DuPont rep preferred that we use the Epoxy as sealer and we were ok spraying it over their aerosol primer. But Cromax is a little different than many of the others. When I painted my car with Cromax, I sealed it with 1 coat of epoxy followed by a 30 minute flash prior to basing it. It has been about 3 years and holding up well. Adhesion seems to be excellent.
Obviously they are all different, but it is interesting comparing the differences in water base.[/quote]
When I got certified in Cromax they told me to stay away from aerosol. Epoxy can be used but they wanted a urethane in-between. They might have changed their stance by now. It was 2 years ago when I got certified.
With Sikkens, epoxy is a no-no for use as a sealer. They are ok with it for small cut-throughs, but not for sealing large areas. All you do is dust a light over reduced coat on top of the metal, trying to keep it small. They still prefer a urethane but the epoxy can be used if efficency is top priority.
Sikkens is supposed to have a waterborne primer/sealer that will solve this but it’s not out yet.
I like the new sealers, I just miss having more then a 30 min pot life on a product, the new sealer and shopline primer dry so fast :deadhorse I want my voc’s back!
[quote=”ryanbrown999″ post=15610][quote=”Ben” post=15599]Ryan,
Just for comparison, The Envirobase is not recommended to go over epoxy at all (as of yet). PPG brought in a prototype epoxy to us a few months ago, we’ll see if it ever gets developed. PPG does allow us to use their OneChoice aerosol primer under the base.
When I used CromaxPro, the DuPont rep preferred that we use the Epoxy as sealer and we were ok spraying it over their aerosol primer. But Cromax is a little different than many of the others. When I painted my car with Cromax, I sealed it with 1 coat of epoxy followed by a 30 minute flash prior to basing it. It has been about 3 years and holding up well. Adhesion seems to be excellent.
Obviously they are all different, but it is interesting comparing the differences in water base.[/quote]
When I got certified in Cromax they told me to stay away from aerosol. Epoxy can be used but they wanted a urethane in-between. They might have changed their stance by now. It was 2 years ago when I got certified.
With Sikkens, epoxy is a no-no for use as a sealer. They are ok with it for small cut-throughs, but not for sealing large areas. All you do is dust a light over reduced coat on top of the metal, trying to keep it small. They still prefer a urethane but the epoxy can be used if efficency is top priority.
Sikkens is supposed to have a waterborne primer/sealer that will solve this but it’s not out yet.[/quote]
I think after having known the DuPont rep for several years, I’ve come to the conclusion that he knows more about DuPont products than DuPont does itself (at least in his own mind). What he says supersedes the tech sheets :whistle:
[quote=”Ben” post=15609][quote=”dcturcotte” post=15605]Personally I think comparing different waterborne brands is almost like comparing apple to oranges, where solvent systems were a lot more similar to one another.[/quote]
Exactly. After comparing Cromax to Envirobase, Gloabl and Chromabase almost seem identical. 😆
[b]
lild, [/b] we are using the new sealer. I like them a lot. They spray awesome, lay down incredibly smooth and dry very fast (not to mention they make denibbing easy when needed). My only complaint is that the white is a little transparent (not a big surprise) and that thy don’t fill 80 grit scratches or rock chips and dents :whistle:[/quote]compared to the old sealers, these are much better, and work really well with the solvent as well.
i noticed that the white was a little on the thin side.
as for the rock chips and scratches, just under reduce it.:blink: :wak
with rock chips i hit those with some 400, and put a little bondo in those.:stoned
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