What is Black?
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I have a choice of “black” paints(22 Line Glasurit, but I guess this should pertain to all mfgs?) And I’m kind of confused on the terminology. :silly:
What makes a “Black” paint? there is deep black, carbon black, and tinting black. Which is the blackest? What is the difference? My only point of reference is Mercury Outboards Phantom Black, which is Ditzler DU9000. Which one of the above would be the closest?
the black paint from PPG is Toner DMD1683 in the Deltron(DBC) this is a straight black paint . If your a harley fan this is also called “Vivid black” or ford Fan “Raven Black” there are prolly hundreds of blacks that are exactly the same just a name change
them are some very old paint lines havent heard of the 22 line in years and ditzler is an old PPG line
and the color code 9000 from PPG is just the straight DMD1683 toner
Basically most mixing systems have a straight black toner. Mixing blacks are usually a weaker black (less opaque). And sometimes there are blacks that have a little hue to them (typically yellow/red) which gives the black more of a brown look in bright day light.
Thanks guys. So it sounds like the toner black is the one to get? I’m using the 22 line for the black because single stage is the only way to mimic the “Phantom Black” color, I’ve tried it with bc/cc and even though it is the same color, it looks a good bit different in the sun.
Ben, The Gelcoat I shot on the bottom was a brown black, I had to add a hint of blue pigment to get it how I wanted but it came out damn close.
[quote=”Ben” post=20275]Basically most mixing systems have a straight black toner. Mixing blacks are usually a weaker black (less opaque). And sometimes there are blacks that have a little hue to them (typically yellow/red) which gives the black more of a brown look in bright day light.[/quote]
What would be the difference for example of the tinters “245, 400, 744.” on autowave. I know 744 is the mixing black, but 245 and 400 look pretty much the exact same to me. learn me! :p
[quote=”5LEater” post=20328][quote=”Ben” post=20275]Basically most mixing systems have a straight black toner. Mixing blacks are usually a weaker black (less opaque). And sometimes there are blacks that have a little hue to them (typically yellow/red) which gives the black more of a brown look in bright day light.[/quote]
What would be the difference for example of the tinters “245, 400, 744.” on autowave. I know 744 is the mixing black, but 245 and 400 look pretty much the exact same to me. learn me! :p[/quote]
744 is a mixing black. it is weaker and has a blue sidetone. You would never use it for a main toner as it won’t look very good.
400 is stronger and has a yellow side tone. It can be used for a solid black but it wont look as good as 245. It can also be used as a mixing black when a yellow side is needed.
245 is a different kind of technology than the other autowave toners. it is ground finer and will be a deeper darker black. I think it was made at first for Toyota 202 black, but is used in most straight blacks now.
[quote=”ryanbrown999″ post=20329][quote=”5LEater” post=20328][quote=”Ben” post=20275]Basically most mixing systems have a straight black toner. Mixing blacks are usually a weaker black (less opaque). And sometimes there are blacks that have a little hue to them (typically yellow/red) which gives the black more of a brown look in bright day light.[/quote]
What would be the difference for example of the tinters “245, 400, 744.” on autowave. I know 744 is the mixing black, but 245 and 400 look pretty much the exact same to me. learn me! :p[/quote]
744 is a mixing black. it is weaker and has a blue sidetone. You would never use it for a main toner as it won’t look very good.
400 is stronger and has a yellow side tone. It can be used for a solid black but it wont look as good as 245. It can also be used as a mixing black when a yellow side is needed.
245 is a different kind of technology than the other autowave toners. it is ground finer and will be a deeper darker black. I think it was made at first for Toyota 202 black, but is used in most straight blacks now.[/quote]
Exactly.
Spray 1 or 2 coats of each on a spray out card, then clear them. Have a good look at them in direct sun light…there is a noticable difference. The straight 744 definately won’t cover in 1 coat…and may not even cover in 2. 400 and 245 both look different from eachother when there is enough light present.
if your using the 22 line then forget all the different blacks and toners, etc. just you or your jobber mix a paint formula for the toyota black ryan mentioned. the toyota black seems to be the black the paint companies try to copy when making their factory pack blacks because its just a deep jet black. the blackest black wont usually be a straight black off the bank. it will usually have a small shot of blue in it. another way to go is get black house of kolor single stage. their black is the blackest black i have found.
i know in the ppg line, on straight blacks like ford and chrysler is just dmd1683, which is striaght black, and the toyota code 202, is dmd1649 clear toner, 1683 black, 1689 clear binder. that’s it. as you can see the 1649 and 1689 are what gives the black a jet look. for the toyota. ppg does have a couple of blacks, on is, it’s either dmd647 or 1647, which is more of a jet black than 1683. the others are 648 weak black and i believe a newer black, but these are toner blacks to give colors a certain tone of black.
so maybe some straigh black of your choice and add some dbc500, and create your own jet black.[quote=”jim c” post=20334]if your using the 22 line then forget all the different blacks and toners, etc. just you or your jobber mix a paint formula for the toyota black ryan mentioned. the toyota black seems to be the black the paint companies try to copy when making their factory pack blacks because its just a deep jet black. the blackest black wont usually be a straight black off the bank. it will usually have a small shot of blue in it. another way to go is get black house of kolor single stage. their black is the blackest black i have found.[/quote]
HOK single stage still has a brown shift to it SEM is blacker even at tinting levels ,adding voilet KK to HOK or Cobalt KK Kandy Koncentrate will counter the brown in HOK ar any other black with a brown shift
overall i find single stages are blacker than clear over base jobs,they seem to have more depth ,imo clear tends to grey blacks out and gives a false finish lacking depth
Paul
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