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[quote=”pierceg” post=25081]Yeah I hope people use this thread too. I posted it on other websites and got some good replies with some commonalities. The folks at hotrodders.com seem to all be using either all SPI products or at least their epoxy and universal clear.
Len from Autobodystore said that he likes BASF Glasurit, Evercoat’s Slick Sand (spray poly), and Indasa Roll Sandpaper.Do you use a Mirka DA Buzz? Those things look like quite the tool, something you could do a home project with then bring it to work and be sanding with the best of ’em. I love how you can change the speed with your left hand and keep working with your right hand, all the while having a vacuum suck all the dust through the paper… All DAs should have a remote for your left hand, like how hard would that actually be?[/quote]
Yep i have both the vacuum and the regular in 6″ and a regular 3″ Airvantage, but a couple of my guys use the Mirka 3″..same exact tool.
I’ve used the Slick Sand before, not bad stuff at all, but nowhere near as easy to sand as the Spies 3508. Per coat build/ fill is about the same, dry time is longer with the Evercoat. Also with the Spies you don’t get the tubes of MEKP activator, they have a small hard plastic bottle that’s a little more sturdy for their activator. i don’t find pricing out of line on it either. No worse than your average tube of putty.I’ve used Indasa PSA rolls before..inexpensive and not bad, but i’ve just always preferred the 3M rolls to it and every other brand i’ve tried. Now with the Mirka Autonet,the PSA goes mainly untouched. It’s economical to buy, and lasts like crazy. Plus when it plugs up, just grab an end loose from your block and with a flick it just unclogs and you stick it back down and go back to work. Speaking of Indasa though, their Redline 3″ DA paper is the longest lasting i’ve seen, and i’ve tried basically all brands of 3″. Nobody carries it here anymore, so we stick with the Mirka, price wise basically the same. Bonus with Mirka is they have a 40 grit 3″. That comes in handy a lot more than you would’ve made me believe.
What can i say about Glasurit? Good matching colors, and nice clears. The 923-450 is one of the nicest clears i’ve had the opportunity to spray. Buffs easy too. Nobody’s gonna go wrong using their stuff. It’s top shelf.
[quote=”pierceg” post=25070]I just want to know everyone’s opinions on the products that they believe are the best and why they feel that way about the products.
This includes:Primers
Sealers
Paint/ Base Coat
Clear Coat
Putty
Polishing Stuff
Other Great Products?[/quote]Products are all personal preference for the most part, but i hope this thread does well and gets a lot of productive, intelligent replies and discussion going. That’s how we all learn new and different things.
I’ll start off with the things that are unanimous hits with everyone in my shop. Hope a lot of others chime in and do the same.
masking: USC Handi-Mask, Crest trim lift tape RLT10,3M 06800 Smooth Transition tape, Norton 70746 foam masking tape, and Norton regular masking tape.
buffing: Hi-Temp Products compounds, 3M polishes, Norton detail spray. (Hi Temp also has a great bug remover that’s inexpensive and concentrated)
cleaners: Klean Strip Prep-All. Does what it says, cleans and preps all substrates.
Gun cleaner: Klean Strip Naked Gun, both 5 gallon for the washer, and aerosol for pre-rinse. I have yet to find one person that didn’t LOVE this stuff. I’d personally be the grumpiest guy in captivity if they discontinued it. Aerosol is superior for anyone that has to clean waterborne from their guns. ( not me :cheer: ) although i have in the past had to do so.
Spray poly : Spies 3508. Sands like butter, fills, builds and dries fast. ’nuff said.
Finishing glaze: Marson Platinum Plus glaze and Evercoat 620 Easy-Sand. If i put Icing or Dolphin Glaze back on the shelf, i’d need to wear protective head gear now that they’ve used these.
Booth maintenance: Devilbiss Dirt Control Floor Coat
Door Hem flange sealing tapes and Toyota/Honda wheel opening sealing tape: Crest RWOS2/ RWOS3, Crest RTW8, RTW10 and 3M 08475
Abrasives: Norton Blaze 2″ 36 and 60 grit. Mirka Autonet dry paper, Mirka Abralon finishing discs, Mirka 3″ DA paper ( i CANNOT keep this 3″ stuff in the cabinet !)
Molding adhesive removal/replacement: Norton adhesion promoter and double sided tapes, E-Z Mix Mold Prep solution and soaker tray. If i took that away all the guys would quit. :hunt
For refinish i was gonna shy away from a reply, because products are so prone to personal preference, but i’ll just add that for a really great sealer Dupont LE is really popular around my area, and although i’m not using it now, i haven’t sprayed anything i like better. It sprays very smooth, doesn’t travel- almost non existent overspray, which is great on repaired panels, it dries fast and nib sands easily with 1200 after 15 minutes.
Any questions, please ask. Again, aside from the sealer, everything i mentioned is stuff that all our guys like, not just my own personal preferences, although mostly i agree with ’em… :p
Yep, i have the 3M PAPR. I got sensitive to iso’s a few years ago, so i bought it and used it diligently and fortunately the sensitivity subsided. Now only when i’m doing an overall or bigger job do i wear it. The new booths change the air 8 times a minute so i’m OK with a regulator respirator.
When i got the PAPR at first i didn’t care for it because of the weight of the filter around your waist, but you get used to it fast. You do have to watch it in tight quarters or when the booth is packed full of parts as it sticks out off your waist pretty good. The flip up bump cap that comes with the unit is in my own opinion useless. I hate it. I got my rep to get me a full face mask to replace it, and that i like tons better. Last i knew 3M only sold the full face by the case, so if you want only one you’ll need a good 3M rep to help you out. I’d definitely recommend a demo before buying one if you could. It’s a nice outfit, just different.And the Mirka Abralon lasts even longer and is less expensive than the Norton. They have 1000/2000/3000/4000. You can buy it in different pack sizes too, i believe 10 and 20, to cater to different size shops. After i denib and/or wet sand my clear to appearance, i go over everything with the Abralon 2000 then 4000. It comes in both 3″ and 6″. The 3″ gives you great control on denibs if you have a 3″ DA. When you think it’s shot, take it off the DA, dip it in water, roll it up and gently wring it out and watch how much more life you get out of it. I’ve found using the 2000/4000, if you do it right and don’t just buzz the panel quick and half assed,basically eliminates any chance of your sand scratches coming back after buffing, regardless your favorite brand of polish.
I used to use the Menzerna system. Loved it. Then the jobber i was getting it from dropped it and picked up Hi Temp products full line. They have some great stuff, and it’s very reasonably priced. It’s what i’ve been using for some time now. They have a compound to please just about anyone. My guys all use different ones out of the line, and they’re cheap enough that i don’t mind stocking several. http://www.hitempinc.com/index.html if you’re interested. Also, if you have a local Mirka rep, grab some samples of their polishes…my rep gave me some and told me they’re made by Menzerna. 😉
Ashland Chemical’s Pliogrip by Valvoline Panel 90 part #8051. If you put 8051, 3M 8115 and Crest’s Panel Bonder 3500 all side by side with no labels on ’em and tried them i doubt you could tell them apart very easily. They all look alike, brush out easily with an acid brush, and have the same working times. The Pliogrip is very popular in my neck of the woods. Enough less $$ than 3M to be significant. You couldn’t get me to go back to anyone else’s plastic repair system after using the Pliogrip stuff either.
[quote=”Jayson M” post=24947]The paint pocket exhaust filters will eliminate most of the overspray build up on exhaust fans and plenums vs the green fibergalss filters,night and day difference ;)[/quote]
I’ve heard of those but never seen them, and don’t think anyone around here uses them. Good to know for future reference, and thanks for the input.
Nice job cleaning ‘er up. Love the memories those pics bring back. Thanks.
[quote=”painter” post=24922]Stay away from Standox Waterborne. Way too meny tech problems. Seedy base and do not try and denib the base. Color chips do not match the color.
Dupont is the very same product but a little cost. Stock up on clear. You will need three coats to hide the seedy basecoat.
Trust me RUN.[/quote]Oh, c’mon it denibs just fine when you wet sand it… 😛 It doesn’t match nearly as well as Standox or Spies solvent, and although it’s wicked fast to apply, i found it way too slow to dry on top of all the junk that you need to double strain out…twice. The big advantage i saw over Cromax with the Standoblue was the color chips. They were bigger, and i hear the newer Cromax ones will be as well now, but the Standoblue were organized by manufacturer AND by color family. So if a Honda silver with one code had no chips you liked, flip down a few to those of another code and chances were good of finding one you’d like.
The best thing i see with water is it FORCES you to wait out the flash off period, which is so important and so often abused in solvent systems. But the fans needed to dry the water were basically shutting down our IR 10HP screw compressor that’s dedicated strictly to the booths… if they were running while someone else was painting the painter got a noticeable pressure drop…and we have 1″ line and a loop system feeding the booths, and they’re very close together and close to the compressor…very close.Side note, the company that does booth repairs in my area was telling me how much trouble water is causing in shops using it. Seems that the overspray stays so wet so long, and finally dries so hard that they’re having to disassemble exhaust plenums and sandblast them to get them clean instead of just the normal scrape and blow off from solvent, and the wet overspray is getting past post filters and into motors and ruining bearings in some. Average per booth down time 3 days. In production shops they’re seeing repairs necessary up to twice a year. I’m curious to see if anyone else has heard or experienced this. Never would’ve dreamt that would happen. I’m very happy with, and think i’ll stick with solvent to the bitter end as long as there’s strong color match support/updates.
I believe it’s been abandoned by all in favor of “How to use a Sharpe Razor without getting cut”
About a month ago my 3M rep told me there was a mid January sales meeting on the tips and that the official release date is February 1st. Can’t wait. 3M had promised these to drop last August, then October, now supposedly next week. We’ll see. My techs and myself all love the gun for primer, but with some primers the 1.8 is just a monster hose. Love how quick, easy and inexpensively these guns clean. Couple shots of Naked Gun aerosol and pop off the tip for a quick wipe and you’re done. I hadn’t heard about a 1.3, only the 1.4, but when i quizzed him about the possibility of getting tips for base/clear eventually he did say it will happen at some point. Maybe they’ll surprise us and it’ll happen now to make up for the long wait.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane, i cut my teeth on those guns back in the old lacquer days. Man how time flies. (our primer gun looked just like that one does)
:cheers ^^^^^ What you said ^^^^^ :clappy :clappy :clappy
It’s hard to beat the advice given from the earlier comments, glass like finishes out of the gun are tough, but you can get close with experience, practice and patience. ( and luck 😛 ) Just remember flatter isn’t always better. On overalls, knock yourself out, on collision work it’s a no-no unless the OE finish is flat.
When i bought my Supernova, it was before the hybrid tip came out. Never much cared for the gun compared to my W400 so it sat in the bottom of my box. I eventually bought the hybrid tip/needle/cap…still didn’t like it. Left the hybrid tip on and went back to the original cap…voila, nice spraying gun. If anything it might spray clear too flat for most collision work. I use it mainly on cars with flatter OE finishes. if you want flatter with your hybrid, maybe try a non hybrid air cap and see if you like the results. The cap does make a big difference in the way that gun sprays.I use it and like it, although my choices for putties these days keep my real need for it to a minimum :dnc My techs don’t like it because they just can’t grasp the concept and use it correctly. The thing to keep in mind is to use it for MICRO pinholes, the ones you wouldn’t normally see until you prime. If you can easily see ’em, fill ’em with more putty first…don’t be lazy. When you apply it you instantly see it in the fine sand scratches and pinholes you “thought” weren’t there when you declared it finished. Cool product, just don’t try to abuse it. I agree the applicator sponges need to be replaced fairly often.
How about a little bit more info? What are you spraying with it? I would assume clear, but medium or high solids? What size fluid tip and which air cap are you using on it?
I bought the early offering 703515 with the 1.2 and 1.3/TE10/HV30 setup, which i don’t believe is available any more and pretty much use it with the 1.3/HV30.
As an example, i use mine pretty much only when i’m spraying Spies 8600 Optimum, which is a higher solids clear, and have wide open fan unless otherwise needed, fluid all in, then 4 out. I tend to prefer my RTI diaphragm regulator, but when i use the digital one supplied with the gun i set it to around 21-22psi.If you have access to a mil gauge, try spraying a few paint can lids with various settings on your gun,start by spraying just as you would if you were painting a panel, or better yet, the same time, right along side a panel you’re doing (just the clear), then when you get your film build where you want it spray a few more test panels and make small adjustments to your technique and gun setup till you like what you see and achieve. It’s a nice gun, and everyone sprays a little differently so there isn’t any single magic solution, just be patient and you’ll likely systematically get it dialed in.
As for orange peel, spraying with too little or too much air pressure can both have adverse effects, but moreso too little….using too fast of a reducer for conditions and job size is another common mistake, as is spraying too far away from the panel, contaminated air, etc. It goes on and on. High flow fittings in the booth are imperative also.
Good luck and let’s hear how you make out with it.