Mike Murphy
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Ok, thats a fair point. I guess I was just saying, to me, its the best primer gun I have ever used, and the finish is better than anyone I have ever seen. I guess I dont get why I am getting beat down here? There are many more people stating what they feel is a good gun, and not a word said. When I mention the Sagola, I get the hammer. No one else listed every variable known to man, and they are simply accepted. Apparently my oppinion isnt valid here. Maybe to satify everyone here, I will demo the Sata this week. Which one would be an acceptable gun to demo to make my oppinion worthy?
Or maybe if you dont use the same guns as Jayson, your just wrong here?
Sorry, you need just a little deeper background. I started working at the high end shop about 90 days ago. I am transitioning from where I was at before. I used to work for a guy doing spit shine restos. You know, sand the paint flat “enough” repaint, and sell on craigslist. Semi, on the frame stuff. He wouldnt spend an extra nickle on materials, so thats why I moved on. He is a mega nice guy and became a pretty good friend, so I agreed to stay with him to try to finish a couple things up. So I was working days for the semi resto cheap stuff, and nights and weekends at the high end place. This was my first full week at the new place. Thats why you were seeing the cheap stuff mixed with the good stuff. The high end shop pretty much gives me whatever I want.
[quote=”Jayson M” post=29675]Your right about that,after trying the 4400 extreme I have no interest in trying any other products from them.[/quote]
I have the 4500 Xtreme, and so far i have only spray some crap SW clear with it. I wasnt impressed with it, but it wasnt a fair shot either. And Ive been spraying my clear with the HVLP as you know, so there will be a learning curve with it. Same with the mini extreme. I sprayed that John Deere crap paint with it, and it was ok, but for a $300 gun, didnt seem like anything special. But as I said, these were not fair shots with them.
The primer gun, no matter how much it bothers you, is a good spraying gun. I have no doubt about that. If it was shit, i would be the first to come here and say just that. It would be in the dumpster, and something else on the way.[quote=”Andy T” post=29673][quote=”gtome” post=29664]I agree that some will have peel, most in fact. But to say laying primer flat has “no advantages” is silly. Especially when it comes to the final primer. If the coats are good and even, you’ve blocked it out well before the last prime, it is simply less work to sand a flatter finish. For instance, I sprayed some parts with a 4:1:1 reduced final primer. Sprayed very flat. And I sprayed some 4:1 primer, and it was pretty flat, but not like the 4:1:1. Obviously grabbing some 600 grit wet paper and going at it, I will finish the 4:1:1 much sooner simply because its less work to knock down. And to me, there is some value in less sanding.
Now if I can learn to spray my clear a little better I will be in business![/quote]
I can see where you’re going with that if you are double priming. I rarely bother as it’s too much extra time and effort (and should be unnecessary), but if I do I like to get plenty of build on the first cycle so I can block it back nice and flat. Smooth isn’t always flat.
On the second priming cycle I will use a more reduced primer as I should only be filling fine sanding scratches and maybe the odd break-through. This second round shold only need minimum sanding so I’ll agree there is some gain to be had from a smoother application. However, if we’re talking about poly (slick sand etc) then we’re not discussing final primers.
As for tip size on primer guns you could always buy the biggest one you think you’ll need and wind it in a bit for less viscous stuff :)[/quote]
Yeah maybe I should have given some background. I work at a classic car resto shop. All the cars get blasted bare, and made perfect from there. The cars we do are the type that we blow overspray where they would have it from the factory, the correct markings etc. The owner of the shop is a big shot at a big dealership here. So we also do light collision mixed in as well. So when we do the restos, they all get slick sand first, then a surfacer. I assure you I cant spray slick sand smooth! But the poly Feather Fill went on very very nice. Just as nice as any urethane 4:1 I have used before, and maybe better than I sprayed some 4:1 primers in the past.
Not at all, but you cant seem to accept the idea that this could be a good primer gun.
[quote=”Jayson M” post=29668]What have you compared it too is my question?Have you used other good primer guns to compare it too?Its kind of like saying glasso 55 line sprayed awesome compared to omni or nason….well no shit :P[/quote]
No, as I already said, the only real name brand primer gun I have ever used was a Finishline. But from the results I have seen, I cant imagine it getting any better. It would be like you spraying clear with your Sata and it coming out perfect glass smooth finish. Really wouldnt matter what your comparing it too.
[quote=”Andy T” post=29663][quote=”gtome” post=29658]1.6 for heavy stuff? That seems a little small for heavy stuff?[/quote]
I suppose it depends on what we mean by heavy stuff. I should have been more clear.
The Debeer 2K high build I was using for the past few years recommended 1.3 – 1.8. I found 1.6 to be just right for general priming. It also worked well with their unreduced epoxy. For really heavy stuff like poly then I’d definitely go bigger, like a 2.0, although I used to manage well enough with an Iwata W400 with a 1.8. For sealer (non-sanding primer) or reduced epoxy I’d use the same W400 with either a 1.3 or 1.4.[/quote]
Ok that makes more sense. And you brought up a good point I hadent thought of. I was wondering what you guys used for sealers. I would hate to throw sealer in my base or clear guns (only ones I have with 1.4 tip). Not much sense in having a gun dedicated for just sealers. So haveing a primer gun with extra nozzels for different materials would be the way to go for sure.
Well this IS a post on primer guns. What am I supposed to say?
And I totally get why some here are not on board and tired of hearing about these guns. But for this one, I cant help but rave about it. It is as good as he says (in my oppinion). The other 2 havent proven that to me yet. Or maybe I havent proven it to them. But im in a shop now where I will be spray much more often, and im sure that the gun time will work out my issues with spraying.[quote=”Jayson M” post=29660][quote=”gtome” post=29636][quote=”Jayson M” post=29625]I get a kick out of guys saying it will put the primer on like glass,really?? who cares you are going to sand it anyway :wak :rofl :rofl [/quote]
For show cars, you sand clear too, does that mean we shouldnt care how it lays on? :silly:[/quote]
That is an apples and oranges comparison,and as long as its a nice even wet coat of primer thats all that matters.[/quote]Its really not an apples to oranges comparison. Primer is “paint” and should be applied as well as anything else that goes on the car. Because in that way of thinking, all that really matters with clear is that its nice even coats….because it gets sanded as well (for the cars I do anyway).
I agree that some will have peel, most in fact. But to say laying primer flat has “no advantages” is silly. Especially when it comes to the final primer. If the coats are good and even, you’ve blocked it out well before the last prime, it is simply less work to sand a flatter finish. For instance, I sprayed some parts with a 4:1:1 reduced final primer. Sprayed very flat. And I sprayed some 4:1 primer, and it was pretty flat, but not like the 4:1:1. Obviously grabbing some 600 grit wet paper and going at it, I will finish the 4:1:1 much sooner simply because its less work to knock down. And to me, there is some value in less sanding.
Now if I can learn to spray my clear a little better I will be in business!
1.6 for heavy stuff? That seems a little small for heavy stuff?
I have a semi soft brissle brush to knock it off with, or a blow gun. Probably wont be using that primer again though. Doesnt seem worth it.
I use a Sata 3000 HVLP digital 1.4 for base and I love it. Its a much better gun than I am a painter. I love the way it sprays the metallics. I just sprayed a Chevelle with the cheapest shitty Sherwin Williams metallic silver, and even it turned out great.
Also is it just me or did that car look a little shiney to be painting on?
[quote=”Jayson M” post=29625]I get a kick out of guys saying it will put the primer on like glass,really?? who cares you are going to sand it anyway :wak :rofl :rofl [/quote]
For show cars, you sand clear too, does that mean we shouldnt care how it lays on? :silly:
So far what i have found is the flatter the primer, the less time I spend sanding. Especially final prime. And I couldnt tell you how well it sprays everything. I have only had it for a couple weeks. I have sprayed Sherwin Williams 4:1 epoxy, their 4:1 high build, Evercoat 4:1 feather fill, Shop line 4:1, and PPG DPS 3055 4:1:1 (reduced)primers. All laid down really nice. We got some K38 that is getting sprayed tomorrow. Only other gun I have used with a name you would even recognise is a Finishline. The rest I have had were some no name gun.
They hired a guy at work the other day that everyone in town says is the best in the state. Has 30+ years experience. He is going to stop in tomorrow and spray with it to see what he thinks. I have to go in to spray some Slick Sand (not with the Sagola obviously) and he is going to Spray the doors. Really id rather have him try the clear gun, because like you have all said, primer gets sanded anyway, so it really isnt THAT important. I am, however, still very impressed with it. And I damn well better be, paid $220 for it and for me thats a pricey primer gun.