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I’m not currently using HS+, but it was my go-to clear for a long time. I only used the rapid harder on smaller jobs, but I did use it. What is your question?
I always clean with waterborne then solvent, Waterborne can cause fish eyes if some is still on the panel,
Sealers are made for wet on wet application, they retain adhesion without being scuffed for whatever time frame the TDS says. Over reducing a 2k primer may make it lay flat enough for wet on wet, but you may get poor adhesion if it’s not scuffed after it flashes. How do you go about painting new parts with no sealer in your system? Do you actually prime and sand OEM parts? Sealer is great for e-coated parts. Just scuff, shoot sealer, then topcoat. No sanding. A lot of sealers will actually have adhesion to unscuffed e-coat. I always atleast degloss the edges just to be safe. But Sikkens for example you can just clean, seal, topcoat. No sanded needed what so ever on e-coat.
So, I talked to my jobber (we get PPG though keystone) and explained what I was looking for clear wise for side projects. He gave me a gallon kit of Keystone Key Kombo clear (KEY725) to demo. It’s a 4:1 (2.1 VOC) clear, it has a Spot/Panel hardener, and Overall hardener, he gave me one of each. Has anyone used this? It replaced the older Key Kombo (Key724) clear. The only difference I noticed between the new and old versions TDS is solids content (Old was 45% by weight, sprayable, new is only 34%) and the air dry times to polish are slower (was 4-6 hours @ 70f, now its 10-12) The dust free time is 10-15 for the old and new version.
I guess the whole point of this long post is to ask if anyone has sprayed it before? He said it’s high solids, but 33% seems low for a HS clear. The TDS says its a 2 coat clear, 1.0mil per coat, but that seems like low build. It is collision work, but does anyone think 2.0mil total film build is enough, I was thinking I should prob do 3 coats? I’m used to spraying stuff thats about 40% solids or higher, and usually builds 1.5-2mil per coat. I don’t plan on cutting and polishing except for nibs, will 2 mills be enough? I don’t mind doing a third coat, but if 2 is enough id rather not just to save material. The whole kit is only 105 bucks, pretty cheap for 5 sprayable quarts.
Any opinions would be appreciated, I’m not used to using cheaper clears, I wanna get the best results I can.
Andy T just about nailed it. Sealer is a low build primer that sprays smooth. We use it over primed areas that were cut through during the blocking process. It will cover a 320 scratch, and is ready to topcoat after it flashes. I actually use sealer a lot, especially on larger repairs. I block the primer with 320, buzz a DA with 500grit over the repair area, then seal and apply topcoats. It’s also used over bumpers and OEM panels. It eliminates the need to sand peel out of primer before topcoating on something you know is straight- like an OE panel. You sand the e-coat/primer, then apply sealer before topcoating. It gives some extra film build, and helps reduce sandscratch swelling incase you didn’t feather your primer out well enough for topcoating. Also. a lot of shops here only carry primer in grey but have sealers in white-black, so with the right shade sealer it makes topcoats cover in less coats.
I do at least 2 cars a day at the minimum. Yea, the white suits get trashed in no time- another reason I don’t like them. I liked the grey Akzo suits, I got one once from our jobber (we use NCS for allied), then it was back to the white ones. Maybe they just have some old stock left or something. I liked the Akzo suit more then the PPG as far as quality, it would be nice if I could always get the grey ones.
I agree with Jayson M. There are rattle can 1k primers that dry super fast. It’s never a good idea to paint over filler, no matter how fine of a grit you feather it out with. Even if you get it covered, It’s gonna end up showing a ghost in the paint down the line. Keystone makes a real nice 1k in a rattle can I use all the time for small breakthroughs and stuff, it’s fast and cheap. There is no reason to not AT LEAST use something similar over filler.
Martin – You paint directly over filler, with out using primer? I couldn’t imagine doing that with solvent or water. I always prime, and if I end up with breakthroughs I seal- seems risky to not at least prime.
I get navy blue suits through my jobber, they are PPG suits. I agree about feeling stupid in the white ones, although they make great snow camo for deer season. The Sikkens suits I used to get were white, and I hated them. Although the white suit with a respirator and an AR-15 might make a cool costume for Halloween or something.
Anyone have anything to say about the ProSpray clears? I know the base is cheap, and pretty good, are the clears the same? Are the clears pretty cheap? I was looking at a few of their AMTECH clears and some appealed to me, anyone used them? Hows the quality/price?
Never used it, but it sounds like it could be a good product. Let me know how the demo goes, Id like to try out some of the compliant solvent products. I have grown to love spraying water, but there are things I miss about solvent. I lucked out with Aquabase because the application is so similar to solvent. I really was not a fan of the all wet application that standox/dupont water use. I like the idea and speed of it, but I just didn’t like it when it came to actually using it on a job. I have herd good things about the BASF compliant solvent, I didn’t even know Axalta had a similar line out. I love the color match the water lines have but PPG and Sikkens are the only two lines I liked spraying.
Jim. which clear is actually faster when it comes to dry times between the euro/univ? SPIS tds are very vague and don’t actually list dry times. Also, how much do you usually reduce the Euro? the low voc says you can do 4:1 or 4:1:1-4:1:3 I couldnt imagine spraying a clear thats 4:1:3 unless it was super thick. I use DC4000 now, which is only 4:1
welcome
I think I’m gonna go with the SPI Euroclear, I keep hearing good things about SPI, and the Euroclear seems like it will fit my needs. Jim C, you do some [b]beautiful[/b] work, How long have you been air brushing for? I’m assuming you cut and polisb the stuff in your gallery, but does the Euroclear spray nice and slick? I like to cut and buff as little as possible. Most of my work is collision so as long as it comes out clean I do very little polishing. However, I do still like to have quality results, and my work to be as slick as possible with out the texture standing out too much from the OEM. I don’t plan on doing any overalls, but I will do some jobs that are up to six panels. With a slower hardener does the Euro flow good enough to get into doing a job that big, or would you be better off switching to the universal for anything more then a couple panels? If the Euro is slow enough to lay out nice on bigger jobs, id prefer to stick to one clear.
Is there a big difference in how the 2.1 VOC version sprays compared to the 3.5? I’v never used any low voc clears, but if they dry/spray pretty similar, id assume use them.
Do you use SPI universal clear? or the euro clear? I here a lot of good stuff about the universal, but people say it stays soft and scratches real easy, which for the type of work im doing I don’t want. I plan on buffing the next day at the latest, so something with good gloss that isnt super slow is ideal. if I tried SPI clears the euro seems more up my alley, I think im gonna give the AG40 a shot though,